We have a ~15,000 gallon pool and over the past three weeks the water has turned from slightly cloudy to extremely murky green!

The pool was perfectly fine up to that point and the chlorine/PH was perfect, it just started to cloud up with what's best described as a lot of pollen.

There is about 4' of visibility and at the bottom of that 4', it's just barely possible to see the top of the pool cleaner as it moves around. The filter is cleaned every other day and the pump was bumped up from 8 hours on to 12 hours on. The pool cleaner is always attached and everywhere it can reach is clean. The three steps in and the swim-out all accumulate a greenish sediment that can be swept off easily and looks more like a dark yellow when it's brushed off.

So far, the guy at the pool store has had us add 5 pounds of bicarb two weeks ago and just a few days ago, I was told to put another 5 pounds in and a jug of chlorine plus to make sure I float at least 3 tabs of chlorine.

When I clean the filter, a lot of the sediment that I mentioned earlier comes out of the pleats but the filter never really gets loaded enough to suggest to me that it's filtering the water much at all. It seems as though when I clean it, the same amount of dirt came out when I wasn't having the problem.

Is this maybe pollen? We have a few palm trees and one flowering tree in the back yard and we just removed a massively overgrown bird of paradise from right next to the pool. When I pull the filter out, there usually is a tiny amount of greenish-yellow slime on the top which dries to a fine powder.

Is it possible that having the cleaner running all the time isn't allowing the pool to filter the water fully? I was told (by my inlaws) to always leave the cleaner attached.

Should I shut the pool pump off and allow whatever is in the water to settle to the bottom over a few days' time? It certainly settles on the steps and swimout, maybe the pump is just agitating whatever's in the water?

The pool is a major eyesore right now and every time I look at it, I want to either fill it in with cement or dump a bunch of Koi in it.

Please, someone give me advice on this! I don't want to have to drain it and refill it. I can put some pictures up of the surrounding trees, the plant that was cut down and the "after" picture of the water.

Edit: I should mention that we've recently bought this house and we don't know if this is something seasonal that has happened before, all I know is the chlorine was a little low so I floated a few tabs and the PH was fine then this mess happened. Both of our neighbors to the left and right have perfectly clear pools, by the way.

 

what kind of filter do you have, and what size, [ d.e. ] [ cartridge ] [ sand ] what brand and hp of your pump , and what is the dimensions of your pool length , width,, how deep shallow end and deep end ? what type of test kit do you use, and what are the present readings, free available chlorine, ph , total alkalinity , calcium hardness , total disolved solids , and conditioner level [ cyanuric acid ] ? ?


post back steve

 

Sounds a lot like a really bad algae invasion; have you used any kind of algaecide? Surprised the pool guy didn't figure this out. I had a lot trouble with algae until I converted the filtration from paper element to DE. This is the algaecide I use for keeping the algae at bay:
http://www.intheswim.com/Commercial-...gaecide-Value/

 

It appears that you have a serious algae problem. Triple your normal shock dose and put your filter on recirculate. Then brush, brush, brush, brush and when you're done, brush it down again. The pool should turn a milky green or bluish green within 24 hours. Check your pH, adjust it to the high side 7.8-8.0. Add "Drop-Out" or a similar flocking chemical and leave the pump on recirculate for another 2 hours. Shut the pump off and let the pool settle over night. Then vacuum to waste.
You can then set it back to filter and balance your water. Don't forget to adjust your total alkilinity.
Leave your vacuum handy cause you'll need to vacuum for 2-3 days in a row.
I've got several large trees over my pool and we run into this about once every 2-3 years. The algae gets resistant to your normal shock doses and you've got to really clean house.

 

I think get your own 4 in 1 small test kit here. From that Id say your alkalinity and Ph is way off here.You also dont say what the CA is in the pool.Get a bottle of ultra clarifier and put some in the pool its cheap and you would only use about 3oz for you pool there at a time.Go read at http://www.kem-tek.com it can help

ED

 

Bicarb is just bringing up the total alkalinity, it does nothing more. This pool has an algae problem. If it was pH bounce the water would have changed color in a matter of hours not days or weeks as described. What ever methods you use, you'll have to kill the algae in the pool, plumbing and filter, and you'll have to use a flock to get rid of the dead algae so the pool will clear. It's going to take some manual labor to get the desired results, there is no cure-all in a bottle.

 

Sorry for not getting back, I've been sick and we have a 6 week old and she pretty much consumes my weekends.

The pH is around 8.3 due to the bicarb and when I checked last, the chlorine was around 3.2 ppm. My father-in-law put another jug of chlorine in so it may be closer to 4, I'm going to test and clean the filter tonight when I get home.

I cleaned the filter on Saturday and a TON of the algae (I'm reasonably sure it's algae) came out of the pleats. Usually you can't see it on the pleats but in this case the filter was quite green. That might have been due to the fact that I was sick and hadn't been able to get to the filter for about 4 days but up until last week when it got really bad, I was only cleaning it every weekend. Same dark greenish yellow and dries to a powder if you can collect enough of it on your fingers.

That reminds me, I'll try to address what kind of equipment we have as best as I can. The pump is probably 3/4 hp, it's very small and from the impeller end to the motor can end is maybe 18" (not including the basket filter part). We have a paper pleated filter that is about 10" diameter and 2' tall. I think the entire system is Hayward. The pool is kidney shaped and is roughly 15,000 gallons, 3' shallow end and 6' deep end recently redone in diamond brite (super blue if it matters). It's somewhere around 17x25 or something like that with cement steps and a swimout in the deep end. We have a Hayward Navigator that runs 12 hours a day (used to be 8 but I upped it due to my problem). It always runs and the skimmer never operates, that's how I was told to do it by the in-laws.

My in-laws swear up and down that it's pollen because we removed that overgrown bird of paradise. They also say that it's not algae because that would stick to the pool surface and this stuff is easy to sweep off - I can sweep it away just by agitating the water above the surface of where it is. I find it hard to believe it's pollen, while the plant removed was big (there was about 400 lbs of stump, trunk, branches, leaves, etc) I can't see it having enough pollen to contaminate a pool, especially when pollen is usually yellow - right?

My father-in-law added 3oz of Super Blue Crystal Clear on Saturday. Like I said above, I haven't had a chance to deal with the pool since cleaning the filter Saturday but hopefully it will have trapped more stuff since then.

One thing I may not have mentioned is that whatever this stuff is, it's suspended in the water and you can see down fairly clearly abut 1' below the surface, after that it gets almost immediately murky. The 1' visibility is the same regardless of being in the shallow or deep end. Because the cleaner runs 12 hours a day, all surfaces except the swimout and steps have zero buildup on them. Usually, after sweeping it away the buildup comes back the next day but yesterday it wasn't showing up as much. I hope that's a sign that the clarifier is working.

I have a 20oz bottle of pool water that has some of the algae/pollen/whatever in it, if you shake it, it's cloudy. If you let it sit overnight, it settles to the bottom.

 

It is not pollen. Pollen filters out and goes away, it doesn't get worse & worse.

You mention putting in a "jug of chlorine". What exactly are you putting in there? For a good "shock" treatment, you need to add enough to jump AT LEAST 5 ppm on your chlorine. A jug at a time is wasting chemicals. You will have to hit it all at once. When you put put in a little today, a little tomorrow, you're actually helping the algae become resistant to your shock.

Check Out this link...

http://c3.org/chlorine_knowledge_cen...ATMENT101.html

 

I'm talking about the standard size yellow jug of chlorine which I guess is 5 gallons, right?

Unfortunately, I'm working against my in-laws and their know-it-allism when it comes to pool care so all I can do is sit back and hope that they will eventually hit upon the right thing to make this go away.

Most importantly, this IS algae, right? Even if it brushes off easily and doesn't stick to the sides, it IS algae? Like I said before, my mother-in-law swears up and down that it isn't algae but it seems as though everyone here says it is and I'm more inclined to believe everyone here.

How many gallons of bleach should I add to shock a 15,000 gallon pool if the chlorine is at 3.5? So far we've added 3 jugs (15 gallons if they are in fact 5 gal jugs) and it's brought the chlorine up from 2 ppm to 3.2 after the 2nd jug but I haven't tested the results of the 3rd yet.

 

The standard yellow jugs are 2 1/2 gallons.

Yes, you have an algae problem.

I would hold off on more chlorine. Have you use a good algaecide at all up to this point?

Clean the filter often during this crisis.

 

It's not pollen. I have 84 trees on just over 1-1/2 acres with 1 huge oak tree a large magnolia, 2 pines (80' tall) and a tulip tree whose trunks are less than 30' from my pool. Trust me pollen doesn't cause problems like you're having.

What is the type and concentration of the chlorine you're using?
We use Dy-Chlor II Granular (65% available chlorine) by Regal. I'm not familiar with the yellow jugs of chlorine.
The algae brushes of easily and gets onto and into everything. The point of all the brushing is so you don't miss any spots. Minimal algae starts off feeling like a slippery spot on the bottom or side of the pool. In small amounts you can't see it and it can spread like wildfire till your whole pool is green in a day or so. Quicker if the water allows it. The longer the algae lives in high chlorine, the harder it will be to kill. Algaecide is great to use if you're sure what type of algae you have. If you kill it with chlorine, be sure to dose the clean pool with an algaecide to prevent regrowth.

 

The only thing that's been done so far is adding chlorine and (unnecessarily) adding clarifier.

I'm going to swing by somewhere tonight and get an algaecide and more acid to get the pH back where it should be from when I was told to add 10 pounds of bicarb

Are there any suggested brands of algaecide? From doing a little more research, it's just green algae that is free floating in the water.

Should I shock AND add algaecide or just algaecide first? Like I said earlier, the chlorine is probably around 3.5-3.7 ppm but I could get a bag of shock as well. I just hate wasting money by dumping stuff into my pool with zero result. Fortunately my in-laws bring chemicals over when they try to deal with it so I'm not paying for their mistakes.


One other thing, I've been reading that you should shock every other week, doesn't that get expensive if the average dose of powdered shock costs $15? That's almost $400/year just in chlorine! If my levels never drop below 2 ppm and the pool gets marginal use, do I really have to shock it that much?

 

I'll have to look at the bucket at home to see the concentration but they are tablets about the size of a hockey puck in a white bucket with a blue or green lid - not sure on that.

It sounds like the best choice will be to just buy powdered shock and blast the algae with it. Can I double up on the recommended dose and not hurt any of the pipes or pool finish?

 

OK. I think I have a plan of attack, let me know if this sounds good or not and what changes you would suggest:

Day 1: Use Pooltime PH Down to get my PH back around where it should be instead of at 8.0

Day 2: Use Pooltime Xtrablue shock (2 bags, my pool is about 15,000 gallons and one bag treats 12,000) to shock the pool.

Day 3: Use Pooltime Non foaming 60% algaecide to remove any residual live algae.

I'll of course be brushing and cleaning the filter each day and I will clean the filter daily for the week following and return to once a week filter cleanings after that.

Should I use 1 bag, 1.5 bags or the full 2 bags of shock? The chlorine like I said earlier is on the high side right now. I'm mostly going with Pooltime because my local Home Depot carries it, it's cheap, and I'm sure it does a fairly good job if used properly.

 

I'm no pool expert, but two years ago our inground pool went green to the point that it looked more like a swamp than a pool.
A neighbour with many years of pool experience told me to buy a bottle of copper sulphite from our local drug store (cost was about $8.00).
He put two table spoons of that into the filter basket, and by the next morning the pool was crystal clear (after vacumming out the dead algie)
Copper Sulphite is apparently hard on the liner, so you don't want to use it any more often than absolutely necessary, but it sure worked for us.

Regards

 

Hi again, your way overloaded with well meaning advise, not being on site its difficult to tell what your dealing with, however there are basic truths in crystal clear water, 1. is filtration . 2. is circulation. and 3. is water chemistry. remove any of the 3 and don't expect crystal clear water, so lets start at number one, you have a cartridge filter, size unknown at this time , a very inefficient type of filter, compared to a diatomatious earth filter,
so clean the filter and add 3 1 lb. coffee cans of d.e. into the skimmer [ you will have to turn on the skimmer to do this ] all the d.e. will collect on the pleats in the filter in a sense turning your cartridge filter into a d.e. filter. note the psi on the filter,

number two, run the system 24 hours per day, check the psi on the filter daily, and when the psi raises an additional 6 psi , clean the filter and add the d.e. again. do this again and again and again.

bring the ph to 7.4 as with a high ph a high concentration of chlorine will have very little killing power, check your cyanuric acid level [ conditioner ] youll have to take a sample to your local pool store, you need 50 ppm minimum. I suggest in addition to chlorine / an algaecide copper based,
swimtrine plus, made by applied bio-chemist or an equilivant. follow directions.

within in 3 days you should see a remarked improvement.

at some point in the future, consider a 60 sq. ft. de filter, and a chlorine generating system.

steve

 

SOMETHING happened between Sunday and Monday! The pool looked noticeably clearer (or, less swampy) and I went to clean out the filter last night. It was entirely green so now it's actually removing the algae from the water. This morning the water looked much cleaner and if this keeps up, it could be swimmable by the weekend. It may have been the clarifier that was put in or it may have been the extra jug of chlorine but there has never been as much algae on the filter as there was Monday night.

I went to Home Depot to buy some Pooltime pH down and put it in the water last night and tested it about three hours later but the pH hasn't changed much if at all. The label said to put in 30 oz of pH down to go from 8.0-8.2 to 7.4-7.6 but perhaps it still needed to circulate some more, it was spread out as best as possible through the deep end.

While I was at HD, my wife called and told me two important bits of information: The bicarb was added because "that's what her father does at the start of the season." Is this necessary? It seems kind of wasteful to throw in a bunch of bicarb to bring the pH up to 8 and then put more acid in to bring it back down to 7.4. She also said that her father had been telling the pool guy that the problem was pollen all along. They are bringing an algaecide over tonight and hopefully that will take care of things.

The water has a slight chlorine smell to it, is that because the pH is off? I was reading somewhere on the web that a pool with high chlorine shouldn't smell like chlorine unless there's too much pH or not enough available chlorine or something like that.

 

Bi-carb brings the total alkalinity up. Proper alkalinity helps stabilize the waters pH. They affect each other when adjusting. Your total alkalinity needed depends on what type of chlorine sanitizer you are using.

http://www.havuz.org/pool_pool/pool_...alkalinity.htm

Your chlorine smell comes from spent chlorine or chloromines. A good shock or superchlorination should fix that. Too much chlorine in the doses you are talking will not hurt your pool. It will take longer to get the clorine level back to 3 ppm and it will increase your pH. Proper pH is more for swimmer comfort than it is for water sanitizing. Sounds like your plan will work fine. Keep cleaning the skimmers and filter. And as Stevie3x said, keep the filter running. He also has a point about your style of filter can be improved. I've never had a de filter although I hear they work pretty well. I'm using a sand filter in mine. In 15 years I've had to change the sand (300 lbs) twice. I backwash it about every 1-1/2 weeks (takes < 5 minutes) I've been very pleased with it.
Glad to see you're making progress!

 

To get that Ph down Home depot has the muractic acid get that it will work much better for you. Like said put a little DE in the skimmer to get on that paper filter And wash it daily. I use pool chlorine 10% in the yellow jug run about .95 cents that way . Put some stabilizer in one time a year.

ED

 

And I second whoever suggested the copper-based algaecide (not copper sulphite, but a regular copper pool algaecide). When I had the algae invasion it was the one that was most effective. It costs more, but is well worth it.

 

Ok, lots of headway here! The algaecide seems to have helped quite a bit and I can actually see the drain at the bottom of the deep end again! My instructions have been to put another 5 gallons of chlorine in to shock it (again) because it's still a little cloudy.

I have a problem with the pH though:

I've added about 5 cups of dry acid to the pool (~17,000 gallons) and it hasn't changed the pH any. The total alkalinity is around 140-150 ppm and the pH seems to be "stuck" at 8.0 and not moving down at all.

Any ideas?

 

if you don't allready have a good test kit, buy one i suggest a 4 in one using dpd for the chlorine test [ free chlorine ] the instructions included will tell you how to determine the total gallons, this is critical ! as all additions are determined upon total gallons of your pool, there is a acid demand chart after you take a ph reading , and it says to add acid to bring the ph down to the proper range 7.5 = ideal NO ONE , including myself knows how mujch acid to add with out using the acid demand test , which this test kit has, presto, end of guessing.


steve

 

I do have a test kit so I'm not really guessing at the pH - I don't know who makes it but it seems to be fairly run of the mill - smaller vial for chlorine test and larger vial for pH and flanked on either side with the color samples. It came out to be about 8.2-8.3 and I consulted the directions on the dry acid (Pooltime pH Down) I bought and put the necessary amount (3.5 cups if memoy serves) in but it didn't seem to change the pH when I retested. I waited a week and put in a smaller dose (2 cups) and still no change at all.

The pool volume was calculated by me as being 15,000 gal but it could be 17,000. Since it's a kidney shaped pool it's hard to get it accurate but even with a 2000 gallon margin of error, adding that much dry acid should do something. It seems as though it's being absorbed by something in the pool.

By the way, is an alkilinity of 140 high? I've seen places say not over 180, I've seen places say not over 125. The pool is plaster (I assume?) and diamondbrite.

 

Get some muractic acid and put it in for that PH. check it every day till you get it down
The acid will help drop the alkalinity. You have got to get it down to 80 to 100 ppm.


ED

 

Do you know why the dry acid isn't working? It seems odd that it hasn't even budged the pH and yet I've put the indicated amount and some extra.

 

I tried the dry muractic two time and it never did work for me.

ED

 

hi again, hang in there and we will work this thing out, as i stated before , with the 4 in 1 test kits after you take the ph test, the next test is an acid demand test, it works this way, using the purple colored ph water , [ apx. 8.0 range, ] add 1 drop of solution # 4 this is a chlorine neutralizer, then add drops of solution #3 one drop at a time counting each drop, swirling the soulition around slightly to mix, when you have added enough of solution #3 to bring the color down to the 7.4 - 7.5 range count the number of drops it took. say it took 4 drops, there is a white plastic card with an acid chart on one side, its in muratic acid [ liquid] and also dry acid [ sodium bi-sulphate] use muratic, follow the chart graft, it will say if you added 4 drops and you have a 15,000 gallon pool add 3 pts. muratic acid.

once you know the total gallons, you will be adding the correct amount of acid, not too much or too little,

remember ph is like the hub of a spoked wheel, all things pertaing to water chemistry is related to proper ph. corrosive, scale forming, effective chlorine, etc.

don't be overly concerned at this point with the alkalinity, 100 ppm is desireable with a dark colored pool, it will come down on its own, so to speak, check the ph a couple times per week, and before you know it you will not have to add as much acid or as often.

steve

 

Thanks for the help! You know, I never even bothered to check the table with the test kit to see if it had a dry acid amount. I know it has a liquid amount though. The bottle of dry acid has its own chart on it so I went off of that.

Like I said earlier, my in-laws want to help (hinder?) this so I've been instructed by their pool guy to add yet another 2.5 gallons of chlorine to the pool last night. At this point, the swimout and steps are getting almost zero algae on them so I'm very happy with that but I still have suspended particulate in the pool at a depth of about 3 feet above the floor in the deep end.

I just don't understand why the pool guy insists on adding all this chlorine when the pH is high? Wouldn't balancing the pH be the first course of action and THEN chlorinate?

 

Read the small book that came with the test kit about alkalinity and add acid to it .Id say you have so much chlorine in the pool now dont go in it.


ED

 

I put another 30oz of dry acid in last night and waited an hour while the pump circulated the water and I think I'm around 7.8 right now.

Couple questions (ok, maybe 3):

1. Is it possible that my test kit won't show a more purple color when it gets past 8.2? I know that the chlorine test gets VERY yellow but it's hard to discern the pH sometimes because the colors blend together past 7.8 - at least for me.

2. If I get my pH below 8, will some of my cloudiness go away? I believe I read somewhere that calcium comes out of suspension after 8 and it can cloud the water. Right now, there is NOTHING resembling algae on the steps - mostly due to the insanely high levels of chlorine.

2a. The advice I have received from the inlaws regarding the cloudiness is "add chlorine and run the pump every week." Which doesn't really make any sense if nothing can survive in my pool right now. I think the chlorine PPM is 10-15 at least. The paper filter probably needs the help of a clarifier at this point to remove the suspended particles - right? Or maybe the pH needs to get down to 7.4 and this relates to question 1?

3. I guess this will be a "when we get there" kind of question but when I finally get the pH where it should be and the alkalinity is still high (140 now), I should bring it down to something like 7.0 and then aerate it back up to 7.4 to drop the alkalinity to 100?

Let me know if I'm on track with this... pool stuff is easy until more than one variable needs to be dealt with and then I'm lost.

By the way, thanks so far to everyone who has helped! My pool is looking VERY blue again, the only things I have to do are allow some of the chlorine to dilute, adjust the pH down a little more and remove whatever particles are suspended in the water.

 

Add some pool time water clarifier it will help the filter. This time of the year I run my pool pump about 4 hr per day. AND get some muractic acid and use it.

ED

 

you may need new reageants, if they are older than 2 seasons, throw them away and buy new. oto and phenol red. your color block may have faded also, thus needing replacement.

adding DE to the filter is as good or better than adding a clearifier, and cheaper too. remember after cleaning the filter you have to re add DE through the skimmer again , as the DE you previously added will be washed off .

try to maintain 1.5 - 2.0 free chlorine levels, and test and add muratic as necessary to bring ph to 7.4 - 7.5 range total alkalinity will follow , how about vacuuming the algae out ? a brush vac works wonders is definitely a pain to use. after you get the pool back to normal a roller vacuum is ok.



lol steve

 

We actually swam on Sunday! Chlorine is around 5, pH is about 7.5, total alk is still up around 135-140 so I need to work on that.

I bought and added some clarifier to the pool and it's very clear now with no signs of algae anywhere - especially on the steps where it normally would collect.

I found a chunk of diamondbrite in the main jet right at the nozzle which I pulled out with pliers and that really freed up water flow.

I just want to thank everyone for all of their help! Once I stopped listening to my in-laws and their 'expertise', my pool started to shape up!

Only thing left is the TA which should be 100, right? Is it bad if it's 135-140? From what I've seen, aerating the water will lower the TA and raise the PH so I should aerate the water to the proper TA and then add pH-down?

 

Use the acid. It will work faster for you.When the TA is highcheck the ph everyother day and add acid.. Get a Kreepy Krauly and he will keep the bottom clean for you. I wouldnt have a pool with out one

ED