Main Drain and Skimmer in pool??

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  #1  
Old 07-10-07, 07:48 PM
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Main Drain and Skimmer in pool??

We have a semi older pool, it has one skimmer filter (i believe its called) and from what I understand in the deep end there is another drain filter? If the filter is running and I sweep the dirt that blows into the pool to that deep end filter, there is no suction. Is that really a filter and prob clogged up real good or is it just a drain? It looks to have 2 phillips head screws on the top of it and looks like the rest of our jets in our pool only a little bigger. Does that make sense? Seeing if I can empty it out somehow if its dirty or what exactly its there for because our pool doesnt seem to stay clean to well.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-10-07, 08:50 PM
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Sean, try putting a plug into the sk that is sucking water, if your pump continues to suck water then your md is plumbed to your sk and you will need an internal diverter valve. It is also possible that the md line had broke at one time and someone plugged it off and cut pipe from pump. There is no pipe coming out of the ground at pump is there?
 
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Old 07-10-07, 09:25 PM
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I'll see what I can find to use as a plug and see what happens. But what it looks like is going on is the MD in plumbed to the skimmer, then skimmer to the pump as there is only one pipe coming out of the ground to the pump. No second one cut off or anything.

If you pull the skimmer cover off and look down there are 2 ports going down, only 1 port is pulling the water to the pump, the other port has no pressure at all which is the one I assume is running to the MD, correct? Would those two be connected underground where your saying the internal diverter valve is or should there be something in the skimmer area I'm looking for that is visual?

Any ideas on what to use to plug the one hole up with that might be laying around the house, I know that thing pulls a lot of PSI
 
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Old 07-10-07, 09:34 PM
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ok I was able to plug it up and it just stops circulating in the pump. Just pull water from the other tube as far as I can tell.
 
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Old 07-11-07, 06:43 AM
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If md was plumbed into sk it would be in the line that is sucking water now or into the other hole in sk. The divertors, there is 2 kinds, one is like a oval plastic box and has a little metal T handle coming out of it and it screws into sk over both lines. The other is actually inserted into the suction line in bottom of sk

Is there a plug in the other line in sk? Or is it an open line?
 
  #6  
Old 07-11-07, 10:48 AM
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Looks to be just an open line, I will get some pics of everything so you know whats going on, maybe I'm just not explaining anything right.
 
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Old 07-11-07, 11:08 AM
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ok heres some pics, prob gonna have to paste in a new browser.

Here is the single line coming out of the ground to the pump(dont mind the long grass)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture161.jpg

The whole set-up
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture162.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture163.jpg

The SK(when looking down the one on the right pulls the water)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture165.jpg
 
  #8  
Old 07-11-07, 07:06 PM
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WOW, now thats an old sta-rite filter. I'm almost positive your skimmer is plumbed with the md coming into it. It looks like to me you have a U-3 sta-rite sk. What is missing is float assy(08650-0079), and trimmer plate(08650-0048). Numbers is paranthasis is manufacturer part numbers. This will able you to have suction from both md and sk.
 
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Old 07-11-07, 08:54 PM
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I looked up the part numbers you posted with a schematic of the SK but cant see how those parts would go into the one I got. Would those two parts sit on top of the ports somehow or do I have to pull half the assembly apart?


Also today i connected the Vac tube between the two ports and it pulled water into the pump just like normal only now I assume it was coming from the MD since I connected the two. I pushed some dirt towards the MD and it still seemed to just float right past it, couldn't see it get sucked in which I would think I could if it was functioning.

Oh I hate this pool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
  #10  
Old 07-11-07, 10:27 PM
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I've been in the pool industry for over 20 years, if I only had a dollar for everytime I heard "I hate this pool" LOL....

The parts will go under your basket and sit on top of the lines, it looks like the correct sk to me. Can you find any model numbers on sk?

The suction might not have been great at the time you did it. Basically the suction should be about 50-50 between sk and md.

How is the cirulation in the pool? Do the returns have a good strong flow?
 
  #11  
Old 07-11-07, 11:25 PM
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The suction at the SK itself is really strong, after looking at other schematics its the right one. As for the circulation, really don't know how well it is. The jets are in the floor and not the walls and they seem to push out pretty well. Sometimes you can see the force of the water being pushed off the walls and other times you cant. It seems like it rotates angles or something, one day it will spray towards the wall and others towards the deep end.

So with all that said, without the MD doing anything, majority of the crap gets trapped down there until we vacuum it up. The SK is alright and seems to do an ok job for being the only area pulling in water. Keeps the shallow end pretty clean for the most part.

Since I bypassed the SK and MD together, shouldn't the suction of been pretty much 100% at the MD? The pump was sucking in water and filling up like normal, just didn't seem like it was really sucking it through the MD when I swept the dirt at it.

Going tomorrow and trying to find the parts for the SK, hopefully it will solve our issues.
 
  #12  
Old 07-12-07, 07:47 AM
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Sean, Doubt anyone will have them in stock. Your infloor cleaning system actually rotates in the floor, glad to hear they're working

When you get your parts and install, you will adjust it with the flapper so that suction is even between the two lines.

Make sure to keep filter backwashed, it will improve circulation and clarity. As old as it is, do you know when the last sand change was? I recommend a filter cleaner chemical, it will renew sand.
 
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Old 07-12-07, 09:36 AM
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The sand was actually changed about a month ago, the pool guy who did it didn't seem to bright with this old of a system so I cant say for sure if things got better or worse after the change since it was right when I moved in and the pool looked OK. I remember him changing out the sand because our filter wasn't working properly, but I remember after the sand hassle we still had the same issue and all it turned out to be was our water level wasn't high enough here in AZ. We would fill it to just enough and each day enough water would evaporate for the filter to catch air.
 
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Old 07-12-07, 11:40 AM
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local pool place had the part, thanks for the help, will let you know how everything turns out. Paid about $30 for it, little more than ordering it online from a few places but at least I have it now.
 
  #15  
Old 07-12-07, 12:42 PM
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I checked the filter at the pump and found two small things in there that I'm a little worried about. Not sure what or where they came from but on is a small, about 1" flat plastic gear looking type thing and the other is a tiny marble or something. Any ideas on this? I have noticed once the pump shuts off it sometimes pushes backwards into the pool.
 
  #16  
Old 07-12-07, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fox_forma View Post
I checked the filter at the pump and found two small things in there that I'm a little worried about. Not sure what or where they came from but on is a small, about 1" flat plastic gear looking type thing and the other is a tiny marble or something. Any ideas on this? I have noticed once the pump shuts off it sometimes pushes backwards into the pool.

Gonna need a picture on this one....
 
  #17  
Old 07-12-07, 02:21 PM
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kinda hard to focus on something so little but here are two pics
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture169.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/fox_forma/Picture170.jpg

Any ideas?
 
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Old 07-12-07, 03:14 PM
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Yeah, can't really tell by pic, I am guessing it came from one of your in floor cleaning returns or the head located near the pump.
 
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Old 07-12-07, 03:27 PM
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I was kinda thinking it came from one of the in floors. Oh well as long as the pool doesnt cave in I'll be ok
 
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Old 07-12-07, 04:09 PM
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Let me know if I can help further....
 
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Old 07-12-07, 08:19 PM
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Just curious but how do the jets on the floor actually work? Some days if a decent amount of dirt gets in the pool you can see what direction they were blowing. Do they rotate within somehow because now it doesnt seem like they are pushing out like they use to. We use to see rippling on the walls in the shallow end pretty good showing they were forcing out nice and hard but now the pool seems calm when the filter is on.

If air gets sucked into the line and drops the pumps water pressure once it builds up again you can see the air pockets coming out of the jets with force, just afterwards it seems the water isn't as strong.

Just curious if its normal to be calm like that and anything I should look for?
 
  #22  
Old 07-12-07, 08:38 PM
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They do rotate in the floor, they also are controlled by the head near the pump that will send water to different heads in the floor, it is constantly changing.

Just make sure to keep filter backwashed...
 
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Old 07-12-07, 08:59 PM
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ok cool, just wasnt sure how it rotated around in the floor or what exactly rotated. Cause I remember pulling the one out and the seal was messed up, put in a new seal and it just pushed down, turned and locked into place. We have 8 floor jets with 4 tubes going into the ground near the pump so I guess each line for each row?

I guess tomorrow I will see how well the pool clears up, it got pretty nasty this week and we just dropped a bunch of chems.
 
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Old 07-13-07, 12:08 PM
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The pool cleared up an ok amount. I turned the filter back on this morning after it shut off at its normal time and noticed some dirt came through the jets in the shallow end. I cant be sure if it was just dirt from being around the jets and when the jets turned on it dispersed it or the lateral valve I think it is went bad in the sand filter. Any ideas what kind of sand filter that is so i can look up a schematic?
 
  #25  
Old 07-13-07, 01:39 PM
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Your filter is a sta-rite/swimquip HRP 20, 24, or 30 there is also a 01B model you'll have to try to find a model number on it. The only other way is to measure laterals there are 2 sizes dependent on which filter you have.
You might want to think about a new filter, yours is pretty old.
 
  #26  
Old 07-13-07, 03:11 PM
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Yeah I've been told to go with a new filter, just gotta talk to the owner of the house since we're renting and I'm not dropping that much money on it since the pool was one of the main reasons we got the place. Just trying to get the pool to clear up now, it was pretty bad.

Oh and I found another marble looking thing in the pump basket again. I cant figure out where there coming from.
 
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Old 07-13-07, 04:53 PM
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pump should be running 24 hours till its clear, then 12 hours a day.
 
  #28  
Old 07-14-07, 01:00 PM
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12hrs a day? We run ours for about 8hrs during the night in the off peak hours to try and save some money on our electric bill. We live in AZ and our bills are normally pretty high up there. Is daytime better than night?
 
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Old 07-14-07, 08:24 PM
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That is the reason its not clear, you should always run during daylight hours, thats when the sun is eating your chemicals. Some can get away with 8 hours, I know many pools that only run 8 but if its big, in the sun, and in AZ I would have to think it'll need 12 (day time) hours. See what works for you.
 
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Old 07-15-07, 12:06 AM
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Will change it up I guess. Just afraid our electric bill will jump a good amount since the AC runs pretty much all day and adding the pump as well will be pulling some decent power. I give it a shot and see what happens.
 
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Old 07-17-07, 04:11 PM
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Well bad news, pool cleared up fine for the past 2 days, went for a swim today then went on a job interview and when I came back water was flying everywhere. The big ancient sand filter popped the top and split the whole thing in half. Looks like a new filter is in store now. Landlords gonna love this
 
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Old 07-17-07, 06:41 PM
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what's the say? If it wasn't for bad luck.... Sorry to hear it, make sure he does not drag his feet and let pool sit to long. Make sure to keep chlorine in it so it does not turn green while sitting. Installing a new filter is easy, I can talk you through it if needed...
 
  #33  
Old 07-17-07, 07:15 PM
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I would imagine its not a hard task to do, its just making sure the funding is there to do it ASAP. I believe our landlord is cool with it but just dont want to have to wait forever for it to get fixed. I think our pool guy is on his way over now to access the situation and get something done ASAP.

And yes the saying about you partial mentioned is very true when it comes to me.
 
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Old 07-17-07, 08:24 PM
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Also any brand you would recommend for easier use maybe and a fair price? I'm sure my landlord isnt going to want the most top of the line system.
 
  #35  
Old 07-19-07, 02:49 PM
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Well a guy came out today and put a new filter in. It was a hayward cartridge one. After he hooked everything up it turned on, we filled the tank and it seemed to be going good but I noticed the pump didnt have that votex type swirl like it did with the water coming into it. About a minute later a PVC pipe disconnected so we had to shut it down. The guy put some glue looking stuff on the pipe and said to let it sit for a little then try again. Everything is connected correctly but any idea why the vortex was being made in the pump like before? I havent fired her up yet but will be shortly. Anything I should check for besides leaks?
 
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Old 07-19-07, 05:29 PM
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What filter did they put on the pool? I don't like cartridge filters on pools, especially large pools. They are high maintnance you will have to take it out and clean regularly. Sand is the way to go for me. As far as the swirl, I assume you're talking about the pump basket. Let me know if it runs fuller or lesser.
 
  #37  
Old 07-19-07, 07:07 PM
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Yeah I was told about the cleaning process of the cartridge ones but it doesnt bother me to much, seemed simple enough. Turned out the return lines to the pull had some major issues. I guess thats where it controls which jets to push out of in the pool. They were all busted up somehow and only one PVC tube was clear so the pressure was building up to much because it had no where to go and it popped the top of the sand filter.

Not exactly sure of the model right this second but its a Hayward, pretty decent size, but everything is working correctly now. The pressure out of the floor jets increased a ton and the pool is looking pretty good after only been running for about 2hrs. Hopefully no more issues arise and our pool will stay clear and not have sand all in anymore.

Seems simple enough to clean the filter when needed though, just pop the top, pull the cartridges, hose em down so there clean and put them back in.

Anything I need to look out for though with this set-up?
 
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Old 07-19-07, 07:22 PM
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I don't remember if you said where you live, but dependant on your area is how much you will need to clean filter. Keep an eye on pressure gauge. Also 2 - 3 times a year you'll want to soak the cartridge in a bucket of hot water and a couple tablespoons cascade dishwasher detergent. This gets the oils out of filter and will last much longer.
 
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Old 07-19-07, 07:59 PM
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I think the filter is a Hayward 0295, if that sounds right? The filter seems to be doing good but it seems there is air getting into it still somewhere. The pool tech did a pressure and leak test and came up with nothing. Should this type of filter always be completely filled with water or is it normal for the water to drop off and have air in it once the pump shuts off?

When the pump shuts off it still does a quick backwash into the pool, is something wrong or is that normal? Our sand filter did the same thing but who knows how that filter was operating at the time whether it was correct or not.
 
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Old 07-19-07, 10:09 PM
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you're getting air in the system somewhere. It has to be on the suction side if you are seeing air in pump basket(when running). Also the backwashing is from the system having a leak somewhere. If the pump basket is full prime(no air) then there is a leak somewhere that you should be able to see that is letting air in system when pump shuts off.
 
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