The 2013 Hayward H100 thread

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  #1  
Old 06-29-13, 11:51 AM
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The 2013 Hayward H100 thread

Doesn't look like anyone has posted on this heater yet this year? I opened the pool about a month ago. Fan assembly was stuck. I freed it up but it wasn't spinning well. Had the repair guy it twice. First time he cleaned everything and said it was fine - it blew cold air 10 minutes after he left. Second time he replaced the vacuum switch and it blew cold air 10 minutes after he left. Now I can't get him back for a third time - not returning calls!

The fan assembly is looking quite old. It spins but is noisy. Heater ignites when cold, runs for about 5 minutes then turns cold, fan still spinning. I hear clicking. Is it possible that the fan is not generating enough pressure and the vacuum switch is stopping things?
 
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  #2  
Old 06-29-13, 07:01 PM
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yes, very possible, make sure tubing is not crimped or plugged also.
 
  #3  
Old 06-29-13, 07:40 PM
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It sounds like it's time to replace the inducer motor. They are very hard to fix reliably.
 
  #4  
Old 06-30-13, 05:13 AM
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So, to test this - would I bypass the vacuum switch and see if it runs constantly? Thanks.
 
  #5  
Old 06-30-13, 08:15 AM
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that is a way of testing but only recommended by professional. Never leave it running bypassed should you try it.
 
  #6  
Old 06-30-13, 09:04 AM
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Well I tried it - and it didn't solve the problem. When cold, it started, fired up and ran four about 5-10 minutes. Then the heat stopped but everything else continued to run. So the heat is cutting out at after a while. Then if I turn the heater off and on at this point I get no heat. Is there another sensor that could be causing this? Thanks.
 
  #7  
Old 06-30-13, 09:36 AM
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there is another that monitors the heat in heat box. It sounds like you may have dirty heat exchanger or something blocking the proper air circulation through exchanger. Does exchanger have soot?
 
  #8  
Old 06-30-13, 02:19 PM
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I cleaned out the heat exchanger at the beginning of the season - vacuumed everything out. Also, when the repair guy came he wrote down that he cleaned this out. So I don't think anything is blocking it.

Where is the heat sensor that you refer to in the following diagram?

Hayward H-Series Above Ground

I can't seem to find one?

Also, I do know that the blower switch is faulty. Sometimes the fan doesn't run and a few taps on the blower switch gets it going. I am looking into replacing my whole blower assembly soon as well.
 
  #9  
Old 06-30-13, 02:44 PM
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You have several things that can cause the burners not to stay lit.
You have 2 high temperature switches, you have a water pressure switch and an air pressure switch.

Do you have a wiring diagram there for that unit ?
With that you trace thru and test each safety device.

Wiring diagram on page 3.
Hayward-H-100-Manual.pdf
 
  #10  
Old 06-30-13, 03:55 PM
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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...48572450,d.dmQ

page 3 top left corner, called temp switch. It controls fan low to high speed. also had air pressure as well as vacuum.
 
  #11  
Old 06-30-13, 08:01 PM
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"page 3 top left corner, called temp switch. It controls fan low to high speed. also had air pressure as well as vacuum"

Is this item 23 in the exploded diagram:

Hayward H-Series Above Ground

I have noted that this switch appears faulty. Also, I don't hear the fan switching between two speeds - it seems to be running only at one speed. Thanks.
 
  #12  
Old 07-01-13, 05:27 AM
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there is no 23, it is not shown in the exploded view. It is in the first diagram coming off the fan.
 
  #13  
Old 07-01-13, 05:28 AM
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sorry, different diagrams. There is no legend for your diagram so not sure what that is. look at the link I provided.
 
  #14  
Old 07-03-13, 11:46 AM
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OK, I ordered and received the new blower assembly. My original heater had a Jakel Blower - the new one is a Fasco. Everything looks relatively simple in replacing the blower EXCEPT that it ships with two new burner orifices. As far as I can tell I have to rip the whole heater apart to put these in? Is this absolutely necessary when changing the blower?

I might try taking the temp switch out of the new setup and putting it into the old setup as a temporary fix. Then worry about ripping the heater apart later to replace the fan?
 
  #15  
Old 07-04-13, 09:45 AM
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I did try replacing the switch with the new one and have the same problem. So I am going to trace all of the switches and see which one is cutting off. If you have any pointers on what might be doing it? When cold, the heater fires up and runs for about 2-3 minutes then the heat stops but the fan keeps on running.

Also, per my previous question - the new blower shipped with two new burner orifices. Are those the same as the one in the heater now or are they somehow paired to the fan. I would like to replace the blower without replacing the orifice (which is a lot more work). Thanks.
 
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Old 07-04-13, 09:55 AM
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With a voltmeter it should be fairly easy to find the intermittent sensor.

As far as orifices..... I can't answer that one. When you originally posted that several posts ago I was thinking maybe extra orifices for natural gas or propane conversion.

You could check with wherever you just bought the blower from.
 
  #17  
Old 07-04-13, 10:09 AM
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I just traced everything according to the wiring schematic. Power is flowing through all of the switches and into the circuit board. So I don't have a faulty switch. I also hear clicking from the ignition module. I don't smell gas so it is not running without a flame.

I tried testing the ignition module but I wasn't able to get a reading there. Shouldn't I get something off this when it is igniting?

Beyond this - according to the wiring diagram there is only the igniter and the gas valve that could be faulty - as far as I can tell?

Thanks for all of the help. This would be easier if the repair guy would come! But after two visits where he left, claiming to have fixed it, they will no longer return my calls!
 
  #18  
Old 07-04-13, 12:19 PM
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I'm confused, you said you hear clicking but don't smell gas? Also said the heater lights for 2 or 3 minutes? If it is lighting is it staying lit for actually 2-3 minutes? Or less than minute? The igniter is also flame sensor which tells the heater there is a flame and keep burning.
No idea why they would send orifices? Don't be offended but you're sure they are orifices? Any literature?
 
  #19  
Old 07-04-13, 12:26 PM
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No offense taken!

Check out the following link for the kit:

Parts4heating.com: Hayward IDXBWR1935 Kit Conv Fasco Blower ABG

It comes with two pairs of orifices - or what I think are orifices. It says one pair is for propane and one pair is for natural gas.

It seems that the blower they now ship is a different brand from the original blower. I thought perhaps this had something to do with the orifices. The blower looks almost identical to the original blower.

When the heater is cold, it stays lit for longer than a minute - I can time it exactly if that helps diagnose it? Then when the burner goes off - the fan keeps running - and it doesn't stop. I have gone out hours later and the fan is running and no heat. This tells me that the heater thinks it is running normally? Once it gets like this. If I turn it off - wait a minute and turn it back on - it does not light. I am not sure I have to leave it before it will light again - but it is a while.
 
  #20  
Old 07-04-13, 12:49 PM
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Clip the black lead to the white neutral wiring coming in from power.
Set the meter to read 120 vac.

Check the following in order......
1 - blue of door interlock switch
2 - black on the thermostat
3 - red on the water pressure switch
4 - yellow on temp. limit switch
5 - red on the next temp switch in line
6 - red of the air pressure switch that goes to ignition module.

You should get 120 vac right up to the ignition module.

There are dozens of companies that sell that blower and no one mentions anything about orifices. I even looked at tech service at Hayward and couldn't find anything.

In the pic below......the red arrow points to the flame sensor rod. This rod needs to be cleaned with a scotchbrite pad so that it's very shiny. Note the gap to the ground contact. That should remain the same.

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Last edited by PJmax; 07-04-13 at 01:14 PM.
  #21  
Old 07-04-13, 01:20 PM
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I would replace fan, still sounds to me there is just not enough exhaust. Can you tell when it fires if fan switches to high speed or stays in low?
 
  #22  
Old 07-04-13, 02:07 PM
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If the blower fan keeps running then that tells us that the door interlock switch and the thermostat is good.

Start the heater running.....let the unit run until it shuts down. Check for 120 vac at the ignition module..... red and white wires.
 
  #23  
Old 07-04-13, 04:47 PM
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I put in the new blower.

I tested the white and red coming out of the control board while the heater was running and no heat. I am getting 120v here.

I hear the ignitor clicking for a few seconds, then stopping and then trying again.

I pulled the ignitor - both of the rods are white so I am going to clean them. I don't have any scotchbrite - are brillo pads ok?
 
  #24  
Old 07-04-13, 05:00 PM
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Yes.....brillo pads will work ok.
 
  #25  
Old 07-05-13, 05:08 AM
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I pulled the ignitor - it is covered in crud. I scrubbed away for a long time but I am getting nowhere near shiny! Seems like I need to dip this thing in something to remove the crud? Anyway, just out of curiosity I hooked it up outside of the heater to see if I could see a spark - I see nothing - just hear the clicking. Should I be able to see a spark between the rods?
 
  #26  
Old 07-05-13, 06:54 AM
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yes, but it should be grounded to heater. Sometimes bending the rods slightly closer will help
 
  #27  
Old 07-05-13, 07:23 AM
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It was plugged into the heater when I tested it, just not installed in the flame box - is this sufficient grounding or does it have to be mounted? How far apart do the rods need to be? Thanks.
 
  #28  
Old 07-05-13, 09:15 AM
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don't know the distance between, yes should be grounded to heater
 
  #29  
Old 07-05-13, 02:09 PM
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If you hold on to it while not grounded you'll get a shock. The gap should probably be about 3/16" of an inch.

Also....the sensor rod must be fully in the flame to work properly.
 
  #30  
Old 07-06-13, 06:35 AM
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Is it grounded when it is plugged into the control board or is it grounded when it is screwed into the burner housing? I am testing it by keeping it plugged into the control board but pulling it out of the burner housing so I can see the rods. I am holding onto the rubber part of the cable so I am not going to ground it. I see no spark but I hear the clicking.

Also, I don't smell gas. Presumably if the ignitor is not lighting the gas I should be able to smell it?
 
  #31  
Old 07-06-13, 08:26 AM
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so if not smelling gas, did it light earlier? It need to be grounded to the heater frame, you can use a alligator clip wire if you have one or simply screw into any hole you can in the heater frame.
Is this nat or lp gas?
 
  #32  
Old 07-06-13, 08:28 AM
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oops also, have you checked the voltage of the igniter connector when trying to ignite?
 
  #33  
Old 07-06-13, 08:39 AM
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I have similar problem as original poster, but my H100 will run 5 to 20 minutes before the gas valve closes. The exhaust fan will continue to run and after a while, I haven't timed it but at least 5 minutes, it will try to restart, sometimes it restarts and again runs for a while and sometimes it will fail to relight and actually turn off briefly and restart immediately and then fire back up. Having a problem keeping water at temperature as pool surrounded by trees and temperatures have been cool and burner is on about half the time.
 
  #34  
Old 07-06-13, 08:42 AM
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sounds like heater needs to be cleaned, not enough exhaust through exchanger
 
  #35  
Old 07-06-13, 08:53 AM
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Thanks, I will remove exhaust fan and inspect and clean heat exhanger. Should I just vacuum out area or more extensive cleaning?
 
  #36  
Old 07-06-13, 09:21 AM
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if exchanger is sooted might need to spray with hose.
 
  #37  
Old 07-06-13, 09:35 AM
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Best not to check the voltage of the ignitor......the high voltage will fry most meters.


The only way to tell if it's a sensor problem or the ignition system is you need to put a volt meter on the red and white wires going to the ignition module and see what happens to the 120 VAC.
 
  #38  
Old 07-06-13, 02:44 PM
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the exchanger was not sooted, but lotsa green corrosion around copper tube fins. cleaned it best I could gently without damaging exchanger. Has been running for about 30 minutes with no problems. The squirrel cage fan inside exhaust motor was quite rusted. Looks like it is attached to motor shaft with a set screw. I am going to try to find replacement squirrel cage fan. 4-3/4" dia 1-3/8 deep for 1/4" shaft motor.
 
  #39  
Old 07-06-13, 03:10 PM
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Good to hear! The green is from chlorine reacting to copper. Check for a leak, make sure never to store chlorine around heater or have chlorinator before heater in plumbing.
 
  #40  
Old 07-09-13, 04:11 PM
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OK, I am back. Here is what I have done now:

I could not get the flame sensor to clean up - it is coated in a dull grey substance that is rough to the touch. I tried steel wool, brillos, etc. Nothing is getting this crud off the two rods.

I checked the spacing - it is ok.

I hooked the ignitor up outside of the burner gasket, grounded it, and ran the heater. I got sparks.

I put the ignitor back in the unit and started up the heater. The fan is running, only at one speed, I am getting 120V on the red and white terminals on the control module. The unit attempts to light (I think three times before giving up). I am getting no flame, and I am smelling no gas. With everything working shouldn't I be getting some gas in the burner?

When I started this whole process I was at least getting a flame, although it didn't stay lit.

Thanks.
 
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