Pool deck O seal ?

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  #1  
Old 09-16-16, 07:42 AM
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Pool deck O seal ?

My pool was built in the 60's. I have owned it for about 5 years and this year have become more involved with the pool (learning how to operate and maintain it instead of just relying on hired help). It seems the seal between the deck the and the coping is long done and was never replaced. The pool cleaning guys don't (on my second vendor) don't even tell me I need to fix this which is disappointing. I can tell the deck is no longer level with the pool with one end sinking and parting and the other end sinking a bit. I think I will replaster the pool, replace the coping, re-tile and also re-deck kind of spruce it all up in about a year maybe two. In the interim, I want to reseal things for fear water seeping in is causing cracks in my deck. Here are some pics. Tell me what you think and recommended courses of action, if any. Thanks in advance. BTW I want this to be a do it myself project. Tell me your thoughts on that as I am new to all this. I am very interested in the science and the physics of why something is done and within that context what is the best materials and procedure to take. I tend to discount the work of handymen but respect it if they have an engineering aspect behind it.

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Last edited by PJmax; 09-16-16 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spaced pictures
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  #2  
Old 09-16-16, 08:20 PM
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Welcome to a money pit.

I have a Sylvan pool installed in 1970. That gap between the coping and the deck is an expansion joint. The product used as the expansion medium is called homosote. Concrete Forming, Expansion Joint Material | Homasote

It's a gray paper type material. Mine has been long gone. I filled the gap with a round foam backer rod and then poured epoxy rubber over it. Looked good for a while until the joint turned green from the algae.

I've had some undermining under the coping as well as some tiles coming loose. I was able to fix it myself. There is always constant maintenance on an older pool.

It needs to be painted roughly every four years or so. I haven't needed any plaster repair and don't think that's something I'd handle myself.

Your coping looks in real good shape from the pictures. I do see your deck has settled. Replacing your deck is going to be a job.
 
  #3  
Old 10-21-17, 09:34 PM
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I want to resurrect this thread. So for a year I didn't have time to work on it. Today, I used a Shop Vac and blew all the debris (small dead leaves mostly) out of the gap. Took a MagLite to look inside the gap and saw it looked very dry and didn't appear deep. So I thought OK I will out some sand in the gap and then some tubing and some kind of seal like Deck O. This would be an interim fix prior to a full replacement of the deck at a later date. To my surprise I ended up putting down 50 lbs of play sand into just one area. The sand kept sinking down. I ran out but am sure that one area could suck in a lot more?

What do you folks suggest at this point? More sand? Leave it?

BTW I don't really care about the cosmetics of the deck, how it looks and even the gap. My reason to fill the gap was I was concerned about erosion from rain water and possibly damaging the pool. But the section of the deck with the biggest gap is actually slanted so that rain will run away from the gap unless it hits the area directly.

I read somewhere else that when pools are built soil is not compacted so as not to crush any pipes (return lines) and that all concrete decks will crack within 10 years. Is this correct?

What should I do next????
 
  #4  
Old 10-21-17, 09:40 PM
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Here are some pics taken today. Based on comparison to last years photos it seems the gap didnt grow much at all. Is this purely due to soil erosion or settling?

Photo 1 you can see the length of the pool. This is the side with the gap.
Photo 2 50 lbs of sand funneled into this area. I ran out of sand so don't know who much it can take in.
 
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  #5  
Old 10-21-17, 10:42 PM
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Pouring sand in there will do absolutely nothing. Your deck has settled just like mine and there is a large void under it. Pick up foam backer rod, push it into the crack allowing whatever exposure your compound requires. Usually you want to limit the depth of the sealer to approx 1/2" due to its cost. Deeper is better for a stronger joint but like I mentioned.... cost comes into the equation.

Just one example. It comes in different diameters for a snug fit.
Sika 3/4 in. Closed Cell Backer Rod-108130 - The Home Depot
 
  #6  
Old 10-22-17, 04:23 AM
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I dont see why this would be any different than the joints on a driveway where you would use the self leveling sealer.

First time I did my drive I used 2" wide tape on either side of the joint and used a piece of cardboard to level the material flush, then peeled the tape off, it was a perfectly smooth level flat seal.

I dont do that now due to time but for a pool I'd install in that manor.

BTW, you fill the crack with fine sand to fill up to about 3/4".

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...1&d=1508671404
 
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Old 10-22-17, 10:52 AM
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Yes.... it's quite similar to the joints found anywhere.... like in a driveway or sidewalk but as far as filling in with sand..... you'd need an awful lot of sand if your pool is like mine. Sand probably makes the best backer but be prepared to bring a lot in.

The pool is poured and then the backfill is added back in. The backfill is compacted but not in all areas around the pool. I used a 3/4" backer rod to create a just over 1/2" deep gap. The self leveling rubber compound is poured into the joint. The end results are good. The compound has held up well. The compound does get slimy/moldy due to the constant pool water but is easily cleaned with a slight chlorine clean up.

I actually have a part of the pool deck over an old filled-in septic pit. The pit was filled and and compacted when I switched over to sewer but has still settled. I'm getting close to calling a concrete pumping company to mudjack that area of the pool deck.
 
  #8  
Old 10-28-17, 07:24 AM
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Joint Sealing Range | Sika Australia Pty. Ltd.
For the benefit of others, I found an Australian data sheet file(see above) which seems to have more detail than the US one. Also I saw ontheir UK site specifically for pools they have a product specifically forpools. However that is suggested for inside the pool in water and around thepool the product suggested by folks here is still stated on the site as beingOK. There should be no continuous exposure to chlorine at 5ppm but it seems aslong as itís not continuous itís OK is what I concluded.

I am ready to install this weekend, especially today.However, where I live the weather forecast seems to call for rain on Tuesday (3days from now). The labeling says tack free in 1 to 2 hours and full cure in 3to 5 days. Their technical support lineis closed as it operates M to F only.Anyone have any advice from someone who has used this product on if Ishould proceed? The cure time and the possibility of rainfall bothers me. But ifthat is a very conservative estimate on their part maybe I should just go forit? I really need to go this today or wonít have time for at least a month.Should I go for it?
 
  #9  
Old 10-28-17, 09:24 AM
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The "tack free" point is where the compound is fairly safe from water.
I would think that a full day would be more than plenty to be 100% water safe.

The compound is water safe quickly. The problem would be water laying in the joint and getting between the compound and the masonry. After the rain.... take a pass around with a leaf blower and remove the excess water.
 
  #10  
Old 10-28-17, 11:26 AM
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Thanks! Was about to get busy but before I start, I have a very important question. My understanding as a complete novice is in pool construction the coping sits above a bond beam which sits above the rim of the pool shell. In cleaning out the gap (for the side of the pool I wish to seal), I noticed my deck is level with my pool bond beam rather than the coping. So if I were to lay down the Sikaflex I would actually be sealing a gap between the bond beam and deck and this would be effectively below the coping. There is nothing I can do to raise the deck. Should I proceed and what are the implications? I am less concerned with durability than creating problems (and increasing costs) when the pool and its deck is renovated in the future.

More info:
http://www.continentalpools.com/images/Coping.gif
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It is NOT an intentional step down by design. Referencing the image I found online as an example, the step down is because the concrete deck has SUNK below the coping on one side. On the other side of my pool, the concrete deck is level with the coping. So I should still proceed?

Later when the pool is renovated, I expect them to replace the coping so I'm not worried about any mastic between it and the concrete if things were level. I am just concerned about damaging the bond beam by doing this when the two planes are no longer level. I'm actually creating a seal with the wrong plane (bond beam instead of coping) if you know what I mean.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 10-28-17 at 11:44 AM. Reason: added pic
  #11  
Old 10-28-17, 11:43 AM
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I don't see the deck as below the coping in the pictures but it can be hard to see based on the angle. I'm guessing it may have settled more after your pictures were taken. If that is the case you have severe settling and not even that compound will hold. It will break loose.

I'm not an expert on pool building but I can tell you it is better for the water to drain down and into the ground then to be directed under the coping. Water under the coping will freeze and can cause the coping to heave.
 
  #12  
Old 10-28-17, 12:21 PM
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I don't think its changed much since my initial photos. Sorry I didn't take better pictures as I didn't really visualize the end result at that time. I should have taken them with the camera on the ground to show the difference in height for the coping versus the concrete deck. But because I planned to start this today I wanted to visualize the end result. And in cleaning the surfaces I noticed when done the deck will be below the lowest point of the coping.

Hate to be so precise but so you are saying because of the level of settling, its best that I do noting and let water drain down? If so, the good thing is yes there is a gap between the bond beam and my concrete deck but the concrete deck actually slopes away from the pool. So if it rains only the water hitting that gap would fall in. The rain water hitting the deck drains away from the area due to the slope.

BTW I am in California so no freezing.
 

Last edited by PowerNovice; 10-28-17 at 12:26 PM. Reason: more data
  #13  
Old 10-28-17, 12:37 PM
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Your deck slopes away from the pool but that compound actually creates a low spot where the water can lay. I guess if you add enough compound it would be slightly proud of the pool deck.

It would certainly be best if the compound actually were sloped up to hit the bottom of the coping.

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  #14  
Old 10-28-17, 01:44 PM
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PJ I see what you are saying now. Thats a great diagram you made and representative of my problem. Since the Sikaflex is self-leveling seems like it wonít be possible? I took a look again and also noticed the bond beam surface is not smooth like the coping. Also on some parts after putting in the backer seems like I would not get enough depth to have the Sikaflex level strongly. Having an old pool is really frustrating.

Let me ask you this. What is the implication if I leave it be? My main motivation for doing anything is I fear erosion of the pool shell. As far as how my deck looks, well its not pretty now but that's something I can live with.
 
  #15  
Old 10-28-17, 01:59 PM
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My problem was people stubbing their toes. Keep filling the gap with sand then. That should eventually fill the void.
 
  #16  
Old 10-28-17, 06:14 PM
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? I'm wondering how to proceed if you think its advisable? Just dont want to mess up and uncertain.
 
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