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Nordic Spa Retreat MS - Keeps blowing fuse after storm

Nordic Spa Retreat MS - Keeps blowing fuse after storm


  #1  
Old 08-11-22, 08:30 AM
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Nordic Spa Retreat MS - Keeps blowing fuse after storm

We had a pretty severe storm roll through yesterday afternoon, the power flickered completely off 3 times (off for a few seconds, then back on). As I was heading out yesterday evening, I noticed the hot tub lights were on, as well as the jets were all on full. Lifted the cover and noticed the display was blank, pushed the buttons and they were all non responsive. At that point I shut the power off at the breaker and left it until this morning.

Turned the breaker back on and now nothing is happening at all, display still dead, buttons unresponsive, no jets, nothing. Took the cover off and verified it is getting power (it is). Shut the breaker back off and started checking fuses, the 2nd fuse I get to is blown. Replaced it, turned the breaker back on and it immediately blew. It's the F4 fuse in the below image:



I can't figure out what this fuse is for, a quick visual check of the board from the front I don't see anything burned.

Is there anything else I can check, or at this point do I need to remove the board and start inspecting the back of it?

Thanks.
 
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Old 08-11-22, 09:25 AM
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Have you tried running test mode with F4 open?
 
  #3  
Old 08-11-22, 10:14 AM
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I have not, assuming that is simply powering it up with that fuse removed?

I did try a few more things though, first I found this thread https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/i...oard-problems/

The owner there was having what I believe to be the same fuse popping, in there it was mentioned to reset the J43 Persistent Memory, so I gave that a shot, thinking already it would not work, and it made no difference.

After that, I had read another thread of essentially disconnecting everything, powering up the spa and see if the fuse blew. If not, start plugging things back in and see if the fuse blows. Installed a new fuse, everything disconnected, powered it on, then off, checked and the fuse was not blown.

Plugged in the pump - power on, jets and lights on.
Plugged in the ozone - power on, jets and lights on.
Plugged in the display - power on, jets and lights on, nothing showing on display, unresponsive to buttons.
Plugged in the heater - power on, jets and lights on.

So, it appears that everything is working except the top side controls. What concerns me though is that it kept blowing fuses until I disconnected then re-connected everything. I did notice that the pump appears to be making a rattle, which I had not noticed previously

https://youtu.be/XGsn7waULXs?t=30

The sound is there right at the beginning, then comes back at about the 35 second mark and then off again. The noise may have always been there, but in the tub with the pump on full, perhaps the noise drowns it out, but it's fairly loud with the panel off.

At the least it looks like I need a new control panel, just have to find the correct one. I can find plenty similar, but the buttons are in a different order. Like this https://www.amazon.com/Balboa-BB5323...54233393&psc=1

The buttons in the link are Warm | Cool | Jets | Light

On my existing pack, the buttons are Jets | Light | Warm | Cool

If that does not matter, since the buttons would be wired to the control beneath the sticker, then it should be all good. But, I don't want to order the wrong one and end up with the buttons not doing what they should be!
 
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Old 08-11-22, 09:05 PM
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Was the proper sized fuse in the F4 location ?
It should be .3A.
F4 directly protects the transformer (T1) directly to the right.

You would need to open one of the secondary pins to see if the transformer is zapped or there is a short in the LV power supply. If a larger fuse was in place..... good chance the transformer is fried.
 
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Old 08-12-22, 05:51 AM
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Yep, correct sized fuse in there, 300mA, so 0.3A.

If the transformer is fried, would the whole system simply not work at all? If I go out there now and turn on the breaker, everything except the control panel comes on (lights, jets, assuming the heater). The only issues appear to be the noise from the pump (air lock?) and the non-responsive top side.

Tricky finding a matching replacement top side, finally found one, the most expensive of all the ones I could find and of course, the complete opposite side of the country.

 

Last edited by naiku; 08-12-22 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 08-12-22, 03:37 PM
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everything except the control panel comes on
OK... and what good is that.

The transformer supplies the AC voltage to the power supply to run the timers and processors stages. Without it the topside panel will not operate and your spa will be basically dead.

Changing the top side panel would be throwing money away.
 
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Old 08-12-22, 03:49 PM
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Perhaps this is where I'm confused, so, even though everything except the topside functions. The transformer only supplies power to the top side, if that's kaput, it'll make no difference plugging in a new top side and I'll need to replace the entire board.
 
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Old 08-12-22, 04:43 PM
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and I'll need to replace the entire board
Yes.... that is correct.
​​​​​​​Unless you want to work on the board yourself. I do.

 
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Old 08-12-22, 04:47 PM
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I might take the board out and inspect it, I'd assume that the transformer would need to be removed and a new one soldered back in it's place.

I realize that's likely oversimplifying it some, but at least covers the general idea of working on the board.
 
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Old 08-12-22, 05:20 PM
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If you pull the board....post a picture of the side of the transformer with the writing on it.
The transformer is soldered onto the board in four places.
Sometimes a universal replacement will have leads that need to be connected.

That noise in the video sounds like a motor trying to start but is shutting down on thermal overload.
It is not a normally running motor sound.
Is there another motor trying to start and is not ?
 
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Old 08-12-22, 06:17 PM
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I'll plan to pull the board tomorrow, will be taking plenty of pictures so I can plug everything back in again correctly. But I'll make sure to get a picture of the side of the transformer as well.

There's no other motor in there that I'm aware of, it's a single pump system. The noise only started after the storm did a number on the tub.
 
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Old 08-13-22, 05:01 AM
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Removed the board this morning, the transformer is a Zeppler Magnetics AMXC-432, looks like 8 soldered points and 2 screws holding it in place.


​​​​​​Visually nothing jumps out, there some corrosion on the back of the board, minimal though, but I know that's no guarantee that the transformer is not toast.






 
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Old 08-13-22, 10:36 AM
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Good pics.

Unfortunately it looks like the ID/info label is under the transformer.
That is dual primary 120v+120v so it runs on 240v.
The is dual secondary 12v+12v for 24vAC.

To go on you'd need to get a solder extractor to remove the solder from the secondary/low connections to test for a short on the transformer or in the power supply. I'd need the transformer ID to help you match it. They don't offer an over-the-counter replacement. It would come from an electronics vendor. You could check ebay for used boards.
 
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Old 08-13-22, 04:17 PM
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I'll pick up a solder extractor, is it worth just removing the solder from all 8 pins and removing it from the board at this point?

Or, for now remove the solder from the low side, then test for a short (is the best way to do this using a DMM and testing for continuity?). If the test fails, remove it entirely and try to find a replacement transformer, or start hunting for a new board. Looks like replacement boards are $265 or so. Not terrible in the grand scheme of things! Of course, when I get the controls all working again, I've still gotta figure out the pump noise.

Still can't believe a storm zapped it, just had it running for about 3 months and now this. Typical.
 
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Old 08-13-22, 09:09 PM
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A high voltage spike can do damage faster than a fuse can protect.
You could disconnect the low voltage connections and see if the fuse still blows.
 
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Old 08-14-22, 06:42 AM
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But, and this is where I'm getting mixed up... The fuse no longer blows, after I disconnected everything and plugged each piece back in again (using the breaker to shut power off each time), trying to isolate a potential faulty piece of the puzzle, the fuse didn't blow again even with everything plugged back in.

The only thing non functional, was, and still is, the topside.

Maybe the transformer is still toast and without removing it entirely from the board to test it, I'll never know.

But, currently, if I put the board back in, connected everything up and turned on the breaker, the fuse won't blow.
 
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Old 08-14-22, 04:22 PM
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The topside controls all functions. Without it nothing will work properly.
The circ pump might run to try and maintain heat but it shouldn't work in jet mode.

It's possible the transformer is now open.
 
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Old 08-14-22, 04:49 PM
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I'm starting to wonder if the damage is multiple things, if I plug everything in, turn on the power, the pump comes on full power, the lights all come on, display and buttons on topside do not.

I've got a new topside on the way, I'll plug that in, see what happens, if still the same result then I may remove the transformer or start looking for either a replacement board, transformer, or whole new spa pack.
 
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Old 08-16-22, 06:04 AM
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Well, somewhat unsurprisingly at this point, the new topside made no difference. Installed the board back in, powered everything up, pump and lights come on (maybe the heater, no way to know) and the display remains off. Spa unresponsive to pushing any of the buttons.

So, now I have to decide, do I try to repair the board, assuming it is just the transformer, or do I just pick up a new board. New transformers appear to be anywhere from $50 - $120 + the cost of a desoldering tool ($15) vs the cost of a new board at $265.

If I can find a desoldering kit locally, I may grab one to remove the transformer, but what concerns me if I try to go that route, is most replacement transformers appear to have wire that plugs in somewhere, mine does not, so how does it attach to the board, additionally, what are the chances that the board has other issues? I don't want to sink $100 into a new transformer, only to be back at square one.

Have to think about it some, leaning towards the replacement board if I am honest, despite wanting to try and fix the existing one. Really, I just want to get the tub back up and running. Perhaps I could replace the board, then take my time to try and repair the existing one to keep as a back up in case of issues down the line.
 
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Old 08-16-22, 08:50 AM
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Perhaps I could replace the board, then take my time to try and repair the existing one to keep as a back up in case of issues down the line.
That would be a great idea.
 
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Old 08-16-22, 12:09 PM
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That's exactly what I've decided to do, found and ordered a replacement board earlier, fingers crossed, that gets me up and running again.

At that point, I'll remove the transformer from the existing board, replace it, test the board, then put it on the shelf in case of future problems. It seems like it's an older board, so replacements are getting harder to find (I could only find 2 places online that sell it) so it'll be nice keeping a spare.
 
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Old 08-18-22, 11:41 AM
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New board arrived today, carefully checked against the existing one to be sure it would work, connected it up, turned on the breaker and the breaker trips. WTF.

Cue some cursing, left it for a few minutes and then went back to look. The new one has 3 white wires, old one has 3 white wires, 1 black, dip switches the same. Started looking into what each white wire does, ok on the old board there is a white wire for an AV system (the spa does not have an AV set up). Looked a little closer on the new board, ah ha.... the 3rd white wire on there, despite being routed slightly differently, is for the 120V set up, removed that, double checked jumper settings, reset persistent memory and it is working fine.

The noise from the pump has also stopped which is a bonus.

Now, do I drain and refill the water since it sat for a week, or just test it and let it warm up and enjoy it.
 
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Old 08-18-22, 11:51 AM
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When my spa goes down I continue to maintain the sanitizer level, usually with chlorine, manually. This preserves the water quality for the most part so it's easy to get the spa back up and running when it's fixed. If you let your water sit without treatment it really depends on the quality of the water. If it's gone nasty I'd drain and refill.
 
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Old 08-18-22, 11:53 AM
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I don't think it is nasty, I had changed it literally a few days prior, I could also smell the chlorine when I opened the cover... but, I am leaning towards the drain and refill, rather be on the safe side.
 
 

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