Need advice on pick-proof lock


Old 11-28-04, 08:31 PM
Sharon Louise
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Need advice on pick-proof lock

I am being harassed by a private security company that is breaking into my apartment at least twice a week. I need the name of a lock that is absolutely pick-proof - even by moonlighting NSA agents or police. I now have a MultiLock, which is supposed to be pick-proof, but these guys get in without even damaging the door or lock.

I know vibrating pick guns exist, but they're not supposed to work on a MultiLock. Is there such a thing as an electronic lock pick that senses and stores the positions of the pins so that keys may be made from the saved settings?

Also, does the locksmith who installs a lock retain a key to it? Is it better to buy a lock in a store and then call a locksmith to install it?

I am very grateful for any help you can give me.


Last edited by Sharon Louise; 11-28-04 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Additional question
Sponsored Links
Old 11-29-04, 10:43 AM
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 674
Welcome to the forums! I am puzzled why you do not call police, but there may be other issues so I will leave it at that and answer your question.

For your situation it would be best to have a locksmith come on site to assess your situation, he would be able to change your lock at the same time. Some locks can be bypassed without going through the cylinder, he could identify these issues. Windows can be another point of entry. Medeco is one of the best names in security, especially the biaxial and newer.

I have never heard of an electronic pick except for safe applications.

An ethical locksmith will not keep a key unless you request it. Apartments are often masterkeyed for maintenance but of course local law prohibits unnotified entry for non-emergencies, which of course is not always observed.
Old 11-29-04, 11:34 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,779

I agree with what schiejr says.
It goes against landlord tennant regulations in most areas for management to not have a way of emergency access.

I think that you would be a good candidate for some form of video surveilance.
They are extremely inexpensive these days.

For example, I have an Intel, Pro Video model webcam.
It comes with motion sensing software and I have mounted the camera in the front window of my home and connected it through a hole in the floor with USB cable to my computer which is in my bsmt rec room immediately below it.
With this I can view the comings and goings in my partially isolated rural lot and I've also been able to gather evidence on which of my neighbours dogs have been wreaking havoc with my garbage.

You can also get inexpensive or free software that will allow you run a surveilance program in the background that will be invisible for someone snooping in your computer.

And furthermore, if you want to spend a bit more money, a program I'm looking at will take motion snaps and email them so they will be archved offsite.

Good luck.
Old 11-29-04, 11:51 AM
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 674
Greg makes a great point. You cannot beat the proof a surveillance system will provide and also the sense of security, knowing what is going on while you are not there.

Many of us have seen the benefits from all the video shows on TV. I remember one catching an apt. maintenance man rifling through possessions.

Greg-I suppose you got a lot of "It couldn't have been my Rover, he doesn't do things like dig in the trash" until you showed the video?
Old 11-29-04, 12:11 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,779
You know what,

I havn't used any of the evidence YET.
I try to dogproof my yard and with the pics and fresh snow as a back-up, I am filling in a breach in the fence that divides our and the neighbours yard.
I am on a good, over the fence, conversation level with the neighbour and want to keep it that way.
Him noticing me using a gas powered auger in our suppertime darkness while it was snowing is more than enough.
Dogs aren't out as much and we still say hello.
Old 11-29-04, 02:28 PM
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
There really is no such thing as a "pick-proof" lock. As long as there is decent clearance to the lock, someone will always find a way to pick it. You might be thinking, that there are ways to block access to the lock, but that wouldnt matter either, as long as the human brain functions properly, there will always be a way to bypass security..its a known fact (especially for moonlighting NSA agents).
I think your best option is to do as the above people said. Try a hidden camera, and take it to the proper authorities. If these people really are breaking into your place, and harassing you, and you get it on tape, they will go to jail. If they are members of NSA or other authority figures, they will likely get in much more trouble since they are using their occupational skills in the process.

And yes, there is such thing as an electronic pick, available for use for applications other than safes.

As Scheijr said, Medeco is one of the best names in mechanical security. If you really want to get a very good lock, Medeco is your brand. Medeco's are top-of-the-line, but they can still be bypassed. I can get by them in just a few minutes... but then again i've been dealing with locks for years
I rarely see Medeco in local hardware stores, so you'll probably have to consult a locksmith for that.

Well i hope all turns out ok for ya..
Old 11-29-04, 04:20 PM
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 674
Hakker is right, nothing is ever 100% guaranteed, which is why most reputable manufacturers will list their product as burglary or pick resistant, not proof. It pays to have some type of back up measure in place.

Hakker, I was curious, what type of Medeco do you regularly bypass in a few minutes? The cylinder by picking, or the lock?

Sharon, all the members have made excellent suggestions, I hope it helps.
Old 11-29-04, 07:38 PM
Sharon Louise
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Thank you

Thank you all for your advice.

I have called the police, but I believe some of the detectives in my precinct are working for the people who are doing this. The police insist that no one could enter my apartment without leaving marks on the door, and that if anyone had come in, they would have taken the TV. Then they proceeded to give me a mental status exam! They are either extremely stupid or complicit, and I think the latter.

Do any of you know of a locksmith in Manhattan who is honest enough to turn down a probably large bribe that these people might offer for a duplicate key? Also, could you give me a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to get a high-end Medeco installed? Should I ask for a biaxial Medeco?

I do live in an apartment but I donít give a key to management.
I have a security camera trained on the door. It transmits to a receiver attached to a VCR in the apartment above mine. However, they apparently have equipment that can identify the frequency and block it. Sometimes they block it just when they enter and exit. Sometimes they block it for the whole time theyíre in my apartment, usually an hour. When I have some extra money, Iím going to try to get a hard-wired system. They only come in when Iím out, so I donít worry when Iím at home. (Though knowing that I was sleeping for a month with that window vulnerable gives me a creepy feeling.)

They did come in a window for about a month. Iíd appealed to the FBI for help and had a few months of no blocking of my security camera. I have one window that overlooks a small courtyard. Iíd drilled a hole through the frame of the lower window and three-quarters of the way through the frame of the upper window so I could lock them by putting a nail in the hole. They put a small amount of plaster in the outer hole so the nail didnít go completely in. I didnít discover this until they used too much plaster, and the nail wouldnít go in at all. Iíve never heard of this technique before. Itís utterly bizarre, so anyone who uses nails or drill bits to lock windows should be warned. I live on the second floor, so they simply had to use an extension ladder to get in.

Hakker, do you know of a site where I could get information about the electronic lock pick? Maybe a patent? It would go a long way if I could shove some documentation in these copsí faces.

Thanks to all of you.

Old 11-29-04, 09:30 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,779

I honestly believe that higher security locks than what you have would not help you.

I know that you believe that your apartment is being entered.
However, neither us here or the police know you and your biggest task will be to get hard evidence to be believed.

You are using "belief" rather than facts when dealing with people on this.
"Belief" is something that is known, but not necessarily proveable.
In order to get any peace over this you must have some tangible evidence other than belief to be able to do anything about your problem.
Flour on the floor, tiny threads tied between two objects, a pc with a webcam, something with "proof" you can see, not belief.

When you say your video is blocked at certain times is this your belief or have you gone and seen a blank spot on the tape.

I would also be curious to know what the possible motive for this conspiracy would be.
Have you worked in some kind of profession where you may have priveleged information someone would pay big money to offer bribes for.

Again if you want any peace with this you must resolve the issue of tangible proof versus belief that has no basis in fact.

Does this make sense?
Old 11-30-04, 02:07 PM
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a

When i said that i am able to bypass Medeco's in just a few minutes, i was speaking about some of their stuff from a couple years ago, and not biaxial or newer stuff. I can bypass those but it always takes more than a few minutes .
And i was refering to both picking the cylinder, and other methods of bypass.


You said you have a camera trained on your door, transmitting to a VCR in the apartment above yours. Im curious, is the VCR in the hall looking at the door, or is it in your apartment looking at the door? If its in the hall, then you might want to get a camera in your apartment, hide it in a basket of clothes or something. And wire the camera to a VCR in your apartment. It may be a little pricey to buy a video camera and stuff, but its worth it to get rid of them...cuz you never know when they'll stop the harassing, and start the touching
In your very first post you mentioned NSA agents. If you really are dealing with them, then you'll have a jiffy of a time getting rid of them. They're the big beef of american government agencies.
I searched for a while for you, but i was unable to find a site with patent info, etc about electronic lockpicks. If you want you can try yourself, but might not yield much results.

If i lived in Manhattan i would be more than happy to personally help you out, but unfortunately i live 4 states away

-Good Luck
Old 12-01-04, 10:55 AM
Sharon Louise
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a

<Your biggest task will be to get hard evidence>

I agree, but it's nearly impossible when you're dealing with professionals. I almost got some once. I noticed a light switch plate felt funny. I opened it and found an electronic wire coiled in the corner. I also saw a hanger on the floor that looked like it had been bent to pull a wire through a wall. The problem was, like most women, I'd never taken off a switch plate before. For all I knew, all boxes had little wires coiled in the corner. By the time I'd searched the Internet and found out that the wire was an antenna, they'd removed it. They'd also shortened the wires so I could no longer pull the switch out far enough to see into the box. I should have photographed it, but at that time I had neither a camera nor money enough to buy even a cheap disposable one. I've opened other switch boxes and receptacle boxes, and I've found that they've shortened all the wires so I can't look into the boxes. I'm trying to get up the courage to unscrew the wires from one side of the receptacles or switches. I have a camera and a book on wiring now.

Flour on the floor and displaced threads might convince me, but I'm already convinced. The police would just say I scattered the flour and put footprints in it just to get them to help me.

<blocked video> When they block it by identifying the frequency and sending a stronger signal, the image breaks up into constantly changing pixels. Also, occasionally the screen will go blue, meaning the signal is blocked completely, and the camera isn't transmitting even a degraded image.

I do have information, obtained accidentally, unprovable. They don't want the information, since they already have it. They don't want me to have it. Believe me, *I* don't want me to have it.

<Position of camera and VCR> The camera is in my hall, facing the door. The VCR and receiver are in the apartment upstairs, in a bedroom off the hall. The VCR is facing away from the front of that apartment, that is, away from the front door.

I thought having the VCR upstairs would prevent them from recording over the tape. Since they have equipment that can detect and block the signal from my present camera, probably they can detect any running VCRs or cameras hidden in my apartment. I'm going to get a hard-wired system when I can afford to. A hard-wired system is more difficult to detect.

The touching has started. That's why I suspect the police. When I was stupid enough to report one of the attacks, the police totally blew me off. They didn't even ask me to describe the attacker or have me look at mug shots.

I just mentioned NSA to convey an idea of the expertise of these people. I believe it's a private security agency that hires police and federal agents as consultants.

Hakker, thank you for doing a search. I have a feeling that the electronic lock pick is classified and probably wouldn't show up, but I was hoping. It seems logical that one would exist - using sensors to locate the pins(?) and saving the information on a chip. It could then be plugged into a USB port on a key-making machine containing the appropriate software and create a set of keys. If these agencies plan repeated entries for purposes of harassment, they wouldn't want to pick the lock manually every time.
Old 12-01-04, 11:57 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,779

First let me say that I'm not trying to belittle your beliefs about what may be happening to you.
As I said before, you need to have tangible proof of what you are trying to get across to other people.

The signal jamming, electronic coils of wire and any other means of surveilance or covert entry are all within the realm of possibility.
Our knowlege of the inteligence industry is today really common general knowlege, thanks to television drama, investigative journalism and court cases.
What I think you need to do is educate yourself on this technology to be able to more accurately determine what is or is not being used against you.

An example of belief based conclusions is the Salem Witch hunt.
The people that orchestrated this line of reasoning did so with good intentions, based on the information they had at the time.
The reason their arguments don't hold up in modern times, is solely because of the knowlege we have today.

You should question your theories, to be able to eliminate ones that may have a plausible explanation.

The "electronic coil of wire" in a switchbox for example is extremely common.
Although it goes against electrical codes, it is a common shortcut by unqualified electricians to not cover the end of unused wires in an electrical box.
If the wire was solid copper then it could be a ground wire, if white, a neutral wire, black, an unused hot current carrying wire, or red, another unused current carrying wire.
If it's an antenna, it would have to be connected to a transmitter, which would be thicker than a normal wire, probably at least the size of a pencil eraser.
For someone to connect an antenna as you describe to a pencil eraser transmitter somewhere else would be out of the range of a likely possibility.

Learn what you can but I must also say that you must be very carefull about working with electricity.

My suggestion to you is find someone you trust to help you with this.
Old 12-04-04, 10:05 AM
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by GregH
Our knowlege of the inteligence industry is today really common general knowlege, thanks to television drama, investigative journalism and court cases.
I don't mean to criticize you or anything but the intelligence industry goes far, far beyond what is shown on tv drama, journalism and court cases. The general public's knowledge is really nowhere near the whole of it. As i said, i don't mean to criticize you, i respect your opinions, but i know this stuff because i spend most of my time studying this stuff. My biggest fascination is all about security (everything security... national, international, mechanical, eletronic, etc) and i have spent the vast majority of my life researching this stuff, so i know quite a bit more than most people.


Im not sure what to say. You could maybe hire a private investigator. Have him scope out your apartment while your away. You know, maybe have him hide in a building across the street with a camera fixed on your apartment when you leave..
Also, in your second post, you mentioned something about the police saying that they can't enter your place without leaving marks on the door. This in fact, is true. Maybe not on the door handle itself, but on the pins inside the lock. When a person attempts to bypass a lock by interacting with the pins, it leaves small microscopic scratches on the pins. Theres your proof.
Really the only people that can examine this are forensic surreptitious entry analysts, but they can be pretty hard to get.
I hate to say it, but you might also think of getting a gun. Not some big .50 caliber desert eagle, but just a light handgun. If people really want proof, then you can give them some blood samples of the guys harrassing you
Old 12-04-04, 01:23 PM
Sharon Louise
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Little white wire

Greg Ė I did research this, or rather accidentally ran across it while researching surveillance in general. When I first saw the little wire, I too thought it belonged there. Then I found out that what they do is replace your switch with a similar one containing hidden electronics, including a transmitter. The antenna is then attached to the wired switch and drawn through the wall to increase the range. This wire was about one-fourth the size of a standard electrical wire and hadnít been attached to anything yet. I am very careful, turning off the switch in the service panel and using a tester as well. What really convinced me that the little wire didnít belong was the fact that they removed it later, and shortened the wires to the switch as well, so I couldnít pull it out to see clearly into the box.

Hakker - <the intelligence industry goes far, far beyond what is shown on tv drama, journalism and court cases.> Scary, isnít it? If people knew how far, the whole country would have a massive nervous breakdown.

At one point I actually asked the police if they could examine the inside of my lock. Of course, they said no. But they probably couldnít tell anything anyway, because they sure arenít forensic surreptitious entry analysts.

Iíd love to have a gun, but theyíd bust me 15 minutes after I got it. In New York they arrest shopkeepers with registered guns if they shoot people who are trying to rob them.
Old 12-04-04, 02:12 PM
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Are you a shopkeeper?

Also, if you shot them you can claim self a previous post you metioned that they have touched you. And you would want to shoot below the waste (i.e. the legs), that way it couldn't be considered manslaughter in the second degree.
Old 12-04-04, 02:15 PM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,779
I'm quite sure that "they" know more than we do about what surveilance techniques and tools are available.
I didn't mean to say that TV is a way to have a good knowledge in this area but rather the creativity shown in some fictional drama, allows you to consider what was once not that long ago, impossible.

I know this is troubling to you but I must commend you for the route you are taking by gaining knowledge in this area.
I had a friend who felt like you but was consumed by it.

I again ask if you have some idea as to why you have been singled out and what anyone would gain by this?
Funny thing is that everyone that has a normal daily life is being "spied" on so to speak, all the time.
Air miles, reward points, customer loyalty programs, social insurance numbers used as identification, debit cards, credit cards and "enter your name to win a toaster" are some of the ways info can be gained on just about anyone.

We don't know you, but if you or someone close to you were involved in something illegal, then I guess ya, you would have a problem, because why would law enforcement say they know what's going on.

Keep learning and pressing for answers.
I still think that the answer to this is in catching them rather than trying to build a fortress.

Some of the things you are finding could be surveilance devices but could also have a simple explanation.
Some switches are designed for three way use where two switches control one light.
Some use short wires to connect in the box and if they happened to have a three way switch when a single pole one was needed, you would have an extra wire coming from it.
Have seen this before.

Good luck.
Old 12-10-04, 06:48 PM
Sharon Louise
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Hakker Ė I know what their electrician looks like, since I almost caught him in my apartment once. Heís a skinny little kid. Iím not much of a shot, and Iíd probably miss his legs. Before I knew they had surveillance in my utility room, I did lie in wait for him once Ė pretended to leave, then hid with a club, brake-cleaner spray, and duct tape. I wanted to disable and question him. He didnít show. Then a stranger described the whole scenario to me on the subway. Thatís how I found out they do have surveillance in my utility room.

Iím not a shopkeeper, but you read about it all the time in the papers. The shopkeeper defends himself, and they arrest him. If theyíd arrest a shopkeeper with a registered gun, theyíd sure arrest me for even carrying an unregistered one.

Greg Ė Like your friend, Iím also consumed about it. Before this started six years ago, I didnít even know it existed. I donít know why Iíve been singled out. Iíve even wondered if itís some sadovoyeur freak club, like in that movie The Game. What little information I have about these criminals hardly warrants something that must be really expensive to carry out. It is horrifying how little privacy we have. Iím surprised that more people arenít experiencing what I am, because these experts can find out anything about anybody. Usually, though, they use it for identity theft or theft of funds, not stalking.

I wish I did know some criminals. Maybe theyíd help me. Unfortunately, I and everyone I know are tediously straight. I believe law enforcement people are involved, but in a moonlighting mode. God help New York if the cops are dumb enough to think Iím a criminal and are spending all this money and resources on me. Whoever is doing it is very high-end. I got equipment that finds hidden hard-wired cameras. So many cameras are present that the equipment canít even go through its self-test cycle. It starts right off detecting the cameras. Iíll look and see a hole in the wall the size of a hair. Another reason I couldnít shoot the electrician, Hakker. I grudgingly admire his expertise, and after all heís just getting paid to do it. I want the creep thatís paying him.

It wasnít so much that the wires were short. It was that they were long the first time I looked at them. Someone came in and shortened them.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes