Looking for Grade 1 electronic dbl cyl

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  #1  
Old 09-09-06, 07:20 AM
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Looking for Grade 1 electronic dbl cyl

I am looking for lock recommendations.

Currently I've got the kwikset cheapie bolts so anything would be a step up. I am trying to figure out what's available with the features I want, or with MOST of what I want.

I have three outside doors and would want double cylinder deadbolts for two of those doors and a double cylinder deadbolt keypad lock for the third door, all keyed alike or masterkeyed.

1. Double cylinder or key-removable (capture) thumb latch
2. Keypad with standard cylinder for backup
3. ANSI Grade 1
4. Security+ remote compatibility

Since I don't have a copy of the ANSI specs, I don't know if keypads and Grade 1 are mutually exclusive. (Edit: It appears they are not, for example Ilco PowerLever)

Any opinions, links or suggestions welcome. Thanks.

***Edited to add keypad specifics.
 

Last edited by ArgMeMatey; 09-10-06 at 05:51 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-09-06, 07:49 PM
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Apples and Oranges

Originally Posted by ArgMeMatey
I am looking for lock recommendations.

Currently I've got the kwikset cheapie bolts so anything would be a step up. I am trying to figure out what's available with the features I want, or with MOST of what I want.

I have three outside doors and would want double cylinder deadbolts for two of those doors and a keypad lock for the third door, all keyed alike or masterkeyed.

1. Double cylinder or key-removable thumb latch
2. Keypad with standard cylinder for backup
3. ANSI Grade 1
4. Security+ remote compatibility

Since I don't have a copy of the ANSI specs, I don't know if keypads and Grade 1 are mutually exclusive.

Any opinions, links or suggestions welcome. Thanks.
Hi ArgMeMatey,

I'm afraid your asking Apples and Oranges here. Grade 1 Locks are light duty, residential locks. I rarely recommend them. They don't last in my oppinion. Grade 2 will serve you better. They are Heavy Duty Residential grade locks. Deadbolts should be considered as your primary lock for security purposes, so you want to get a good one. Several brands of quality are Schlage, Baldwin, Emtek. Emtak and Baldwin are almost identical, except they are less expensive.

As far as the Key Pad Lock, There are many ways to go, and a couple things to consider. Will the lock be in a protected area? By that I mean, will it be protected from the weather? If it is, it won't be a big issue. If not, there are many different verieties available on the market. The locks I am most familiar with are made by Kaba Ilco. They are mechanical, meaning no batteries to look after. Alarm lock makes a good electric model. These two are a bit pricey for most residences, but they are reliable, and available with Key Bypass feature. And there is always the other direction as far as quality. There is a brand sold under the name codelocks. They are not too bad, but again, they really cannot stand the weather too well. You may want to do a web search on code type locks.

Hope this gives you an idea as to which way to go. Drop in and give us an update?

cuedude
 
  #3  
Old 09-10-06, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cuedude
Hi ArgMeMatey,

I'm afraid your asking Apples and Oranges here. Grade 1 Locks are light duty, residential locks.

As far as the Key Pad Lock,
will it be protected from the weather?
The locks I am most familiar with are made by Kaba Ilco. Drop in and give us an update?
Thanks for the response cuedude.

I always know that Grade 2 is in the middle but get confused about whether Grade 1 or Grade 3 is better and all the sources I've checked indicated that Grade 1 is better. For example
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow/managinghome/article/0,16417,219535-2,00.html

It makes me wonder why ANSI leaves little room for improvement (Grade 0, Grade -1 and so on!) but I suppose they can do what they want.

Regarding weather, the keypad door is under an awning and has a storm door. I am not sure if that's protected or not, as it normally get below zero here in the winter for at least a few days.

Regarding the keypad units, sorry my original post was not specific enough: I am looking for a keypad deadbolt, something like the Weiser or Kwikset Powerbolt.

I am familiar with the Simplex latchbolt pushbutton locks that have been around for decades. I see they also have the PowerLever self-powered but I don't see a deadbolt on that. The issue with that stuff is "Will it fit inside the storm door?"

I'll check the specs further but the the larger issue is getting something with a cylinder on the inside, or something like Medeco's capture thumblatch, since all of my doors have glass lites.
 
  #4  
Old 09-10-06, 07:46 AM
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I goofed

Hi ArgMeMatey,

You are correct about the grade 1 over the grade 3. I stand corrected.

Here's a little something I just dug up online:

http://www.locksmithtoolandsupply.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PLT&Product_Code=CL5010BBSS&Category_Code=DSPBL

This lock is made by Kaba Simplex, has a keyed bypass on both sides, (something I was unaware of), and looks a bit lower profile than the squared 1000 series lock. You might want to go to the home page on the site, and look around. There is a lot on the site to choose from.

Hope this helps a bit more.

cuedude
 
  #5  
Old 09-11-06, 05:39 AM
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having read this post a few times, I am distressed by the facts here.

I am not, nor ever will be a proponent for the current crop of electronic deadbolts available, as they are all garbage.

For true security in the environments and locations you list, I would install a Mag lock with a separate keypad/ high security cylinders.

Mag locks will withstand 1000 lbs pressure, are weather resistant, not prone to the same common malfunctions, comply and surpass ANSI certifications.

They are priced accordingly too. The reason people tend to choose these cheap and nasty electronis deadbolts, usually are because they are unaware of and dont wish to pay for real genuine quality.

The mechanical versions are better in alot of cases but the deadbolt function was removed as an option because of low demand, many years ago.
 
  #6  
Old 09-11-06, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by GlobalLocky
I would install a Mag lock with a separate keypad/ high security cylinders.

Mag locks ... surpass ANSI certifications.

The mechanical versions are better in alot of cases but the deadbolt function was removed as an option because of low demand, many years ago.
1. Mag lock ... that's a magnetic lock, right? Often seen in commercial buildings? I love the mag lock idea. Problem with those is I would prefer fail-secure and they do not allow for that unless I would put in something like a strike that would activate only on power failure, that is, a strike that locks when power is removed. I know I can do backup power but the basic idea behind the keypad or remote is convenience, not necessity. That is, my wife would still carry the brass key but she could use a keypad or the garage remote to get in the house. Is there another option to allow fail-secure?

2. Are mag locks ANSI rated with the same Grade 1, 2, 3 ratings as key locks?

3. I saw the CL5020 which looks like a lever-activated deadbolt, but it seems too big for the door.

Coming from a commercial environment, I have talked to locksmiths about the interchangeability of cylinders and cores as you would see with Best or Russwin. Seems like Best has a lock option that fits about anything, and you just stick their cylinder and core in that. That's my point of reference, but residential deadbolts are a different market.
 
  #7  
Old 09-16-06, 06:02 AM
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Well you guys are all going to call me a hack and a loser, and I understand why. I am still researching the mag lock idea, but need some fail-secure add-on for that.

I checked Consumer Reports (Oct 2005) and they rated the Medeco Maxum Residential at the top of list, although curiously the bolt was only 'good' at resisting sawing.

Additionally, just as mentioned around here, they did not like the electronic deadbolts, rating two units #30 and #31 out of 31.

No. 7 on the list was a Kwikset UltraMax 985S. These aren't well-rated for drilling and picking resistance or sawing, but frankly those MOs are pretty rare around here, maybe because there's a lot of pedestrian traffic, the lots are small, and the common entry methods are unlocked doors and open windows.

So I bought three of the 985S on eBay for a total of about 1/8th the price of ONE Medeco Maxum. That will hold me until I get the electronic part figured out.

Thanks for the recommendations.
 
  #8  
Old 09-16-06, 12:12 PM
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Magnetic Locks are most definitely available in fail-secure mode, although because they are more often used on commercial storefronts that are fire escapes, this is not the preffered model.

When it comes to High-security switches, you might also consider Bilock cylinders. They are far more secure than Best or Russwin and even more secure than Medeco. I would group them in the same category with Abloy Protec but with the added features of Quick change core mentality.

Are your doors metal or wooden? outward/inward opening?
 
  #9  
Old 09-16-06, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GlobalLocky
Magnetic Locks are most definitely available in fail-secure mode, although because they are more often used on commercial storefronts that are fire escapes, this is not the preffered model.

Are your doors metal or wooden? outward/inward opening?
OK, I'll bite. How does a device that locks by energizing a magnet manage to be fail-secure? I understand how a fail secure strike works with a solenoid, but this is perplexing.

The door in question is wood. It opens inward. I would guess that somebody has figured out how to "mortise" a mag lock into a jamb and door so the works are recessed, but would this make a loud click or thud due to clearance requirements? The commercial units I've seen all seem to be silent.

Thanks for the Bilock info. I haven't studied it carefully yet but just looking at the keyway I get the idea that it's not meant to be messed with or duplicated at the hardware store.

On the other hand, I've seen scores of Best and Russwin cores drilled so it seems to me if someone wants in without destroying the door, a nicely torqued drill, a sharp bit and a center punch will usually do the trick. I recall an old photo captioned "Creating a new shear line" or something like that. Plus I am not sure I live in a bad enough neighborhood, nor do I have a nice enough house to warrant that level of protection.
 
  #10  
Old 09-17-06, 03:24 AM
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Have you not heard of "power To Open"?

Requires power to activate the solenoid that releases the magnetism in effect.

similar to normally-open or normally-closed circuits.

Mag locks can be mortised if required....and do make a click...but the noise can be quelled by a suitable door closer.

When it comes to drilling cores.....alot of high-security manufacturers employ hardened pins in their cores protecting drilling.

Whilst true, that a determined person will get in....the idea with high-security is to slow them down enough or stop them altogether...so they might try next door instead.
 
  #11  
Old 09-17-06, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GlobalLocky
Have you not heard of "power To Open"?

Requires power to activate the solenoid that releases the magnetism in effect.
I googled "magnetic lock" and "power to open" and all the references I got were about solenoid strikes that would fail secure, that is they lock when the power is shut off. I could find nothing about magnetic locks that lock when the power is shut off.

Fundamentally, I am missing something, because as I understand it, a magnetic lock works like this:

1. Switch closes relay or circuit
2. Circuit sends power thru electromagnet mounted on door frame
3. Electromagnet attracts ferrous plate on door

... so how do you get an electromagnet to secure the door when there is no power to energize the electromagnet?

Also what do you do when the door opens "in"? That is, how do you protect the electromagnet from burglar damage?
 
  #12  
Old 09-17-06, 10:21 PM
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if this forum allowed recommendations for where to purchase product....i could send you to a site directly.

But.....A mag lock is not an electromechanical device!

you can ask for a fail-secure model....the do have them....just they are not most sought after.
 
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