Mortise lock help

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  #1  
Old 03-11-09, 02:04 PM
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Mortise lock help

I have an iron gate outside with a mortise lock inside. It's a double cylinder mortise lock. The handles stopped working after some time, I turn the handle (inside and out) and the latch does not retract. I have to use the key to open the gate from either side.

The armor plate that screws the mortise lock is cracked and I suspected that had something to do with the handles not working.

After removing the mortise lock completely, it seems to be a Marks Ornamental Iron Gate lock or a clone of one.

The body of the lock itself was loose, two of the screws had come up. I opened the lock (hopefully) put it back properly and tightened it up. I put the handle in to test and it does retract the latch (although the handle does so if turned in one direction only).
 
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  #2  
Old 03-11-09, 02:08 PM
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Does anyone know where I can get an armor plate for this lock?

Also, can I change out the cylinders? How does one measure a mortise cylinder?

I also wanted to put a thumb turn on the other side and remove one of the cylinders. Would this thumbturn work?
 
  #3  
Old 03-12-09, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nocarsgo View Post
I have an iron gate outside with a mortise lock inside. It's a double cylinder mortise lock. The handles stopped working after some time, I turn the handle (inside and out) and the latch does not retract. I have to use the key to open the gate from either side.

The armor plate that screws the mortise lock is cracked and I suspected that had something to do with the handles not working.

After removing the mortise lock completely, it seems to be a Marks Ornamental Iron Gate lock or a clone of one.

The body of the lock itself was loose, two of the screws had come up. I opened the lock (hopefully) put it back properly and tightened it up. I put the handle in to test and it does retract the latch (although the handle does so if turned in one direction only).
Welcome to the forum.

A picture would tell a thousand words, thanks.

Sounds like the hub (the part that the spindle sits through) is not seated correctly. When the casing is lifted (screws are loose) this is a common side effect that will cause the latch to not retract. Youve done the right stuff so far I think (although a pic would certainly help)
 
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Old 03-12-09, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nocarsgo View Post
Does anyone know where I can get an armor plate for this lock?

Also, can I change out the cylinders? How does one measure a mortise cylinder?

I also wanted to put a thumb turn on the other side and remove one of the cylinders. Would this thumbturn work?
By "armor plate", do you mean the lock body or casing?

That thumbturn will work if it is the correct size. Common sizes of mortise cylinders are 1-1/4" & 1-1/8" (distance from front of keyhole to back of cam)

Make sure your cam is correct so the lock works. You can take the cam off the old cylinder easily.
 
  #5  
Old 03-12-09, 07:17 AM
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Marks does have replacement parts for their mortise locks, but you'd need to know the model # as there are several armor front configurations as well as several mortise lock types, and that's assuming it is in fact a Marks brand.
Mortise cylinders are measured from the BACK of the cam to just under the front flange, ie., overall length minus about
1/8".
Most common are 1", 1-1/8", 1-1/4". However, many iron gate & storm door locks use 4-pin cylinders that measure 3/4".
The cam shape (not visable on your link) must be same aprox length to work.
There is a trick to turn your inside cylinder into a "thumbturn"
by filing a notch in an operating key, so that, once inserted, cannot be withdrawn without taking the lock apart.
 
  #6  
Old 03-12-09, 03:11 PM
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Thank you for the welcome, I apologize for not saying hello! That was rude of me.

Thank you for your help. I've taken some pictures and labeled a few of the parts. If you click the link, and click the picture again on the imageshack page you will get a better view.











After opening it up again, I think one of the springs popped out and I'm not sure of the correct placement (Picture 3). The left leg of the spring (labeled '1') seems to be correct but the right leg (marked '2') may need to be located to the area marked '3'.

I think everything else is where it should be. The cylinder measures about 7/8inches from the base to the cam.
 
  #7  
Old 03-12-09, 03:15 PM
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Oh, and this is what I meant by armored plate or face plate. I came across the terminology while looking up the lock online.

The lock screws into the face plate, and the face plate screws into the gate with the very top and very bottom screw. I'm not sure if it's an actual Marks Ornamental Iron lock (22 Series) or a clone. Cannot find any markings on the lock or the face plate.

 
  #8  
Old 03-12-09, 05:59 PM
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Very good pics, & yes it does indeed appear to be a
Marks 22 series right down to the keyway. Tho the armor front is not listed in the parts list, surely a call to customer service would at least refer you to a dealer,& at best, send you the part direct.

A standard 1" mortise thumbturn with a "Standard" or "Yale"
cam is available at any locksmith; most have used ones they'll sell you for under $5.

Since you've already taken it apart, dab a little grease on the various wear surfaces before reassembly, & it'l last a lifetime.
(at least my lifetime, anyway).
 
  #9  
Old 03-12-09, 06:23 PM
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Thank you rstripe. I was worried I did not put it back together properly. I will definitely contact Marks and see if they can help.

A couple of questions.

So only a standard 1" mortise cylinder (with Standard or Yale cam) will work, not a 1-1/8" ? I was hoping to get a Schlage keyway in there to match the one on the front door.

And this CRL Thumbturn Cylinder will work as well for the lock?

Is there a specific type of grease I should use and basically apply to any of the moving/sliding parts?
 
  #10  
Old 03-13-09, 05:50 PM
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Actually, any length cylinder will work, as the set screw holds it tightly in place; but different lengths call for different size spacer collars, tho these are for esthetic purposes only.

I wouldn't get the particular "CRL" thumbturn in your link, as it has a "Standard AR cam" & may not work....we have some terminology confusion-- you need a "Standard" cam which is the same as a "Yale" cam. An "AR" (or"A/R") cam is much shorter, and might not work. A/R cams are very common and is the standard type to use with Adams Rite locks.

Lubriplate or any common white grease is fine.

BTW, did you discover the proper position of the hub spring?
I think you're right, it needs to go in position #3. It has to give a strong force to the hub cam so as to provide a good knob return action.
 
  #11  
Old 03-13-09, 06:05 PM
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BTW#2, if you're looking for the common Schlage "C" keyway
(your key may have "SC1" stamped on it) these aftermarket mortise cylinders are available most commonly in 1" lengths for a dime a dozen (well, not quite), at any locksmith. The Schlage brand, on the other hand, is usually 1-1/8" & much more expensive. Just be sure it comes with a Yale cam.

(We'll forget "Standard" cam, it's confusing)
 
  #12  
Old 03-18-09, 09:29 AM
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So I had called Marks and they are going to ship me out a lock front which is great so that should get taken care of.

I thought the spring belonged at position #3 in the picture as well.

Thank you for the info on the sizing and cam. I'll be looking for a yale cam cylinder and a yale cam thumbturn. When I have everything set I'll be pickin up some of that lubriplate you mentioned.
 
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