Quiet door closer replacement for apartment entrance

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  #1  
Old 07-09-14, 10:01 AM
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Quiet door closer replacement for apartment entrance

I am getting complaints from tenants adjacent to the front door that it frequently slams shut. The closer does not work consistently when adjusted to close slowly and quietly so I have decided to replace it.

I don't know the brand but the model numer is RB 25111

It has also not worked well with seasonal changes in the weather since this is not a heated space. It never gets real cold here in Santa Monica, CA but I'd like to avoid having to readjust it for cool or warm weather as I have in the past.


Any recommendations for a good quality closer that will work quietly is much appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-09-14, 05:49 PM
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There are many variables that can affect door closer performance, #1 being faulty adjustment, followed by faulty installation, followed by door binding problems and wrong closer type for the particular door/location. Modern closers are not affected too much by moderate climate changes, and when they are, a slight seasonal adjustment is all that's needed.

Nowadays, even the Chinese clones give good service life, and inasmuch as your new closer is not doing the job, I suspect one of the above problems.

That having been said, if your door gets heavy use, say more than 100 openings a day, it would be worth it to use a high quality closer that allows full adjustments on all parameters, such as are available from Norton and LCN brands. Not your $50 closer found at the big box stores, but your local smithy can supply you with a high-end closer for $300-$400.

Less use? A $100 closer could be adequate as long as it is installed & adjusted correctly. A photo of the installation would be helpfull.
 
  #3  
Old 07-11-14, 05:52 AM
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Hello JerryCaldwell,

the closer problem you are having, sounds to me as the temperature fluctuates the fluid gets thinner (in sun or hit weather) causing the door to slam, many hardware store closers/cheaper closers will do that (some have different formula of oil then others,

the "big boys" (heavy duty closers such as LCN 4000 and Norton 7500/7700) use a multi-viscosity oil that stays the same in a wide range of temperatures,

the RB25111, it does NOT sound like a model number to me, sounds like you may have found the code given to the closer brand by BHMA or some regulating body in door hardware.

as rstripe said, can you PLEASE get a photo of the closer??

if the closer is one similar to the Norton 78 B/F (potbelly style) closer this can be rebuild instead of replaced, sometimes it may just be it needs new oil or its oil changed if you are willing to try closer oil refilling instead of replace whole unit with a new one that may not last as long.

hope this helps,

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #4  
Old 07-15-14, 05:07 PM
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Cool

Here's a couple photos. The arm is disconnected to avoid having door slam. It worked OK for a couple years but lately it will close very slowly one cycle and slam shut the next. It has never seemed to have enough power to close and latch the door without a slight surge of speed on the latch cycle.

It'd be great if we found one that just closes slowly and pulls it closed at the end.

Thank you!!
 
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  #5  
Old 07-15-14, 07:43 PM
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This is a Norton 1600 series or a Chinese clone of same, sold under more than a half dozen trade names...a very decent closer, should work fine for you, providing the door is not binding.

The photo shows a "parallel arm" type mounting, the correct distance from the door's edge. Not shown are a number of factors that will bear on it's performance:

1) Due to the reduced mechanical advantage of the parallel arm type mounting, the arm must be pre-loaded before attaching to the spindle.

2) For the same reason as above, the closer should be "sized" (internal spring tension) one increment above that of the other types of mounting, OR if it is a multi-sized closer, it should be field adjusted accordingly.

3) Not shown are whether you have 2 or 3 adjustment valves. The ones with only 2 valves (sweep/latch & backcheck) can be very difficult to fine-tune unless you know exactly how they work.

A photo of each end of the closer will reveal the number of valves and whether you have a multi-sized closer or not. A photo of the arm's elbow joint (at rest) will show whether your arm is pre-loaded or not.
 
  #6  
Old 07-15-14, 07:53 PM
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Actually, your 1st photo does show the arm's elbow, but not from the correct perspective to determine pre-loading. With the arm disconnected from the soffit or header as shown in the photo, the elbow should be hard up against the door, ie., still under spring pressure. If it's at rest an inch or so away from the door, it is not pre-loaded.
 
  #7  
Old 07-16-14, 04:44 AM
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rstripe, from what I can see, it appears the arm is at rest hard against the door (it was preloaded when installed)

usually when a closer is working fine for a few closings and slams with the others, can indicate the passageways are blocked (happens commonly with chinese knockoffs) or it has leaked out enough of its fluid to cause it to be out of control. this one does NOT appear to have leaked any fluid.

if this closer is still under warranty (depends on what brand, as different brands are different number of years of warranty, (usually 10 to 25 years) you could send the closer back to the factory for a replacement/repair

another option is adding/changing the oil yourself if you have a workshop (and workbench with a vise) if you choose to not spend much money on buying a new one as some can be expensive depending on options or calling a door tech/locksmith to come out.

hope this helps,

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #8  
Old 07-16-14, 06:27 AM
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Hello DOORDOCTOR and rstripe
The closer is preloaded. Perhaps I'll load it a bit more on the replacement to get the door to latch.
I think I'll inquire where I bought it and get a better quality closer as I don't have much confidence in this one and don't relish getting more complaints after trying tofix it. 8 ) Thank you for your help! !
 
  #9  
Old 07-16-14, 08:16 AM
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arm preload angle (when you put arm on shaft) has alot to do withhow much preload is on the arm, if your closer has numbers or letters on teh arm near where the shaft goes on. these are called index marks and are important with preloading the closer arm properly. if you have NO preload, there will be too long of a latch range and arm screw can get loose over time, if you have TOO MUCH prelaod, you have no latch range (turn latch adjustment screw may be indicated with L or 2) adjustment and will be same speed as large main part of closing (Sweep) or S or 1 on valves of closer.

to help identify this one, is there UL label on it?? I pretty much can identify them by seeing what number is on the UL label. on yours it may be that label on bottom of closer body near hinge side of door.

if going to get a better closer, the Norton 1600 BC will fit the same footprint/bolt hole locations as this one, and have a 15 year warranty.

if going for a strong high end long "lifespan" closer, the LCN 1260 will work (they are cast iron) and are more expensive then the Norton version.






hope this helps,
 
  #10  
Old 07-16-14, 11:53 AM
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The UL label says
R25111
Ul Listed 47V5

Thank you! !

DOORDOCTOR;2297789]arm preload angle (when you put arm on shaft) has alot to do withhow much preload is on the arm, if your closer has numbers or letters on teh arm near where the shaft goes on. these are called index marks and are important with preloading the closer arm properly. if you have NO preload, there will be too long of a latch range and arm screw can get loose over time, if you have TOO MUCH prelaod, you have no latch range (turn latch adjustment screw may be indicated with L or 2) adjustment and will be same speed as large main part of closing (Sweep) or S or 1 on valves of closer.

to help identify this one, is there UL label on it?? I pretty much can identify them by seeing what number is on the UL label. on yours it may be that label on bottom of closer body near hinge side of door.

if going to get a better closer, the Norton 1600 BC will fit the same footprint/bolt hole locations as this one, and have a 15 year warranty.

if going for a strong high end long "lifespan" closer, the LCN 1260 will work (they are cast iron) and are more expensive then the Norton version.






hope this helps,[/QUOTE]
 
  #11  
Old 07-17-14, 03:54 AM
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Hello JerryCaldwell,

from looking up that UL listing, what you have is the Deltana DC10 door closer,

warranty period is unknown (from the Deltana website) they are sold/distributed out of Miami, FL

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #12  
Old 07-17-14, 07:37 AM
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Door closer dilemma

Hello Door Doctor and rstripe

I think I'll go with replacing it with the Norton 1600.

Any thoughts on how I might further ensure the door operates quietly?


I greatly appreciate your helpful advice. Thank you!!
 
  #13  
Old 07-17-14, 09:35 AM
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grease/oil/lubricate the hinges and latch (doorknob spindle and lock parts inside as well as the bolt that comes out the door edge into the hole in frame)

the closer, the "elbow" and frame bracket pivot (if compared to a human arm the "wrist" joint if you think of it as the bracket on frame being the "hand") DO NOT need to lubricate the "shoulder" of closer (where arm goes onto door closer body) many times grease or oil there is easily mistaken for leaking closer fluid, and may end up getting it replaced by a tenant or door guy, them thinking the (new) closer is leaking

adjusting the closer itself can help too, (slow pace to not slam when closing) which should be easy to do on a Norton 1600, since they have 3 valves now, separate valves for sweep and latch on one side of closer and BC on other side as well as spring power adjust.

hope this helps, good luck with installation of the 1600 norton when you get one.

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #14  
Old 07-17-14, 10:22 AM
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You might consider a few more items before assuming this closer is bad:

1) Pre-load only to the first 1/8th turn, that is, 45 degrees....going to the 1/4 turn or 90 degrees will limit the door opening and cause the piston to bottom out, risking damage.

2) After attaching the soffit arm, close the door, inserting the soffit arm into the main arm, then with door closed, pull the main arm only an inch or so away from the door (ie., parallel to the door), then secure in place. Pulling the arm back further, so the elbow is sticking out beyond the frame is a common mistake, and reduces the closing force.

3) If your closer has adjustable power setting, be sure to crank in sufficient spring pressure. You may have an ADA limited closer that cannot be adjusted beyond a size 4, but even with this restriction, it should serve you fine for the type of door shown.
 
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