Installing a keyless deadbolt

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Old 02-15-15, 01:57 AM
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Installing a keyless deadbolt

I am looking to install a keyless deadbolt. It seems most models are designed with deadbolt above the door handle. However, my current Bellhorn lock has the handle above the deadbolt, and the distance between them (measured from the center of the bore) is about 4". That does not seem to leave enough space for the keyless deadbolt, especially on the inside since there needs to be space to accommodate the battery. Any suggestions?
 
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Old 02-15-15, 07:15 AM
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IMO some of those locks don't qualify has dead bolts. Some of them still have a flip lock on the inside. A true keyed deadbolt requires a key on both sides.

Lockey® 2210DC Series - Double Sided Combination Deadbolt Lock, Manual Re-lock :: Keyless Entry Door Locks from GoKeyless

There is ^^ a double sided keyless deadbolt. That qualifies as a true deadbolt. To address you problem, I've seen wrap around plates that cover the holes in the door when new holes are drilled. That might be your only work around.
 
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Old 02-15-15, 05:56 PM
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Pulpo

Understood. However I believe a deadbolt that requires keys on both sides are not allowed for certain residential uses. Occupants may have trouble getting out of the house during an emergency if they can't locate the keys.

Here are few pictures of my door. Most keyless locks seem to require some clearance above the key hole for the number pad. Is there a keyless lock that positions the number pad below the key hole?
 
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Old 02-15-15, 07:32 PM
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Domestic standards use "Mortise" cylinders, for which there are several keyless choices from which to choose, but you have a foreign lock that uses the European standard called a "Profile" cylinder, (sometimes called a "Euro" cylinder). This style has been around for decades and I know there are fancy electronic keyless RFID profile adaptors that will simply go in place of your existing cylinder and make use of your existing lockset. I have not seen a simple pushbutton adaptor tho....Perhaps Global will chime in as he is familiar with European locks.
 
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Old 02-15-15, 07:33 PM
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That's one code that I'll never follow, if it exists. I'm not that dazed & confused that I don't know where my keys are, at all times. Flip locks are no good if the door has glass, in it. In your case, what about a key card lock? They are usually used in commercial buildings but it would be perfect for your situation.
 
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Old 02-15-15, 08:05 PM
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@ Pulpo:

Without getting into a long-winded debate on single-cylinder vs. double cylinder locks as regards to security vs. life-safety vs. convenience, I'll only point out that a "true deadbolt" has nothing to do with the configurations of control, ie., key cylinder, thumbturn, single-side etc.

A deadbolt, once thrown by any method, cannot be pushed back (unlocked) by external force*, whereas it's opposite, the "springlatch" can. (A compromise is the ""deadlatch" which is a springlatch with an auxiliary deadlock trigger that deadlocks the latch when the door is closed, but residential versions are not too secure).

*By external force, I mean an attempt to pry the bolt itself back into the lock.
 
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Old 02-15-15, 08:18 PM
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@ Global:

I see by OP's nice photos that the Italians still like to make multi-bolt locks...reminds me of the massive Cisa rim locks of 40-50 years ago that had 4 bolts of 4cm throw, requiring 4 revolutions of the key!
 
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Old 02-15-15, 09:20 PM
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This lock takes two revolutions of the key to fully lock. But it also locks fine if I only turn the key one revolution. What's the purpose of multiple turns? Just so a longer throw can be accomodated?

The lock is Bellhorn, made in Israel. But the plate on the side says its made in Italy.
 
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Old 02-16-15, 06:52 AM
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rstripe, the true definition of a deadbolt maybe exactly what you said. However, that's the "book" answer not the "real life" answer. In my personal situation, the book answer was worthless because in real life, a thief could break the glass & turn the flip lock, if I had left it there. If a thief enters through a window, he'll have to leave the same way.
 
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Old 02-16-15, 08:03 AM
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Yes, multiple turns will allow the bolt(s) to extend further. The cam on the long-established profile cylinder standard can only throw the bolt so far, so a second revolution of the key or thumbturn doubles the throw. The design of the typical USA made deadbolt does not have this restriction, and when the older 1/2" throw deadbolts were discontinued in favor of the 1" bolts, it still only requires a partial turn to operate.

The longer throw is both useful and psychological; useful in that it adds security against pry-bar entries, and psycological in that it LOOKS more secure, and the multi-bolt design reminds one of a typical vault door with it's multi boltwork.
 
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Old 02-17-15, 10:09 AM
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@Pulpo
As the property owner, you can do whatever you like, however no installer (worth their weight) will install a double cylinder lock on a primary entrance door, irrespective if there is glass or not.
I guess you havent heard of window film? Products like Shattergard are designed to apply to the inside of the glass and make the glass shatter proof (resistant), which in turn will allow you to comply with building codes and life safety codes and still prevent glass breakage. The issue pertains to you, as the building owner, making it simple for any person to escape from the dwelling in an emergency. If for any reason, a situation were to occur, where somebody got hurt or died as a result of being unable to exit, you, as the owner are liable for negligence which voids your insurance claim possibility and potentially can see you fined, imprisoned or both.
It is not worth it, when there are products designed to offer the protection you desire.

@rstripe - I remember the CISA rim locks, they are still made and used today.

As to a solution to your electronic locking request, have a look at SALTO cylinders. They will retrofit in place of the key cylinder and allow for this type of "Atrium" style lock to operate "keyless".
 
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Old 02-17-15, 11:56 AM
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GlobalLocky, Shatterguard maybe good for the average person who walks around in a cloud saying Did anyone see my keys? I feel a lot safer with the double cylinder & if I had to install a lock for a customer, I would give him or her the choice. An installer doesn't want anyone to be trapped but I'm sure that they don't want anyone killed by an intruder either.
 
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Old 02-17-15, 03:19 PM
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Pulpo, this is exactly my point. You cannot recommend that to a customer because you are recommending solutions that contravene the laws of the land. It doesnt matter how you feel or that you are grounded, it all about life safety. If you can lock someone in your dwelling, that's called kidnap or imprisonment. The point is, any reputable locksmith or door technician cannot rightly recommend that because life safety is always the important part of the building code.

Tell me....when you have locked your door from inside, removed the key, gone to bed.....if your dwelling were to fill with smoke while you are sleeping, if you woke to the smoke alarm that you already have to have by law....do you think you, or any other person would be able to 1. find the key. 2. be able to easily locate the door and the keyhole (while blind and slightly asphyxiated) and escape in a suitable amount of time to not cause injury?

That is the reason the law exists....because 95% of people are not as clued in as you are.
 
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Old 02-17-15, 04:16 PM
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Yes, I would have the key in seconds. I don't know about you or anyone else but I would have it, 100%. You can't tell me how to protect myself. I already know what's good, for me. If there is a law against the inside cylinder, it's certainly not federal so when you say laws of the land, you don't really know which land. I don't know where the kidnap came from. That doesn't even warrant an answer. You're right about 1 thing. 95% of the people aren't as clued in as I am.
 
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Old 02-18-15, 06:04 PM
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Well, what the heck, I'll chime in anyway...

The "law of the land" regarding the use of locking hardware, in the state of Texas is mostly determined by individual municipalities. They all have their own "interpretations" of industry building codes. Generally, on commercial/industrial occupancies, justifying double cylinder locks require a city permit to prove special-use occupancies such as jewelry stores etc.

I've not done residential work for a number of years, but back then there was no restriction. It would not surprise me if now, most cities ban double cylinder locks in new residential construction.

I know that burglar bars are becoming more popular in our inner cities, and have heard that these have to be permitted now by most cities, and panic-release devices must be installed on certain windows or, as Global pointed out, insurance claims will not be honored.

To me, the common-sense compromise, as in my house, where double-cylinder locks are used (only my back door, in my case) is to ensure that when the house is occupied, the key is left in the lock, and only removed to be placed on a hook out of arm's reach, when we all leave for the day.
 
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