Schlage not installing well in steel door and possible work around

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  #1  
Old 06-12-15, 02:21 PM
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Schlage not installing well in steel door and possible work around

When I go to install a new F51, the rose is sitting away from the door by about 3/32". There are 2 little nibs that are holding the lock away from the door. They are on the side of the back of the handle and are lipstick pink in this picture.

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Initially I thought that the problem was because the through hole isn't 2 1/8" but is only 2". Not wanting to drill out another 1/8" called them but the representative didn't know what nibs I was talking about. Anyway, in playing around with the handle, door, and my tape measure, I find that the nibs are 2 3/8" on center and I am fairly certain they would still be an issue if I had a standard door. Perhaps the rose isn't seated well enough to the handle but I don't feel any movement and that leads me to think they changed the die for one of these 2 pieces and didn't test it adequately. [BTW the instructions --- --- install the locking side handle, strike plate and then switch the handles. Left out installing the inside handle/screws. Methinks they need new technical drawers or better QA. Or maybe I'm just visually illiterate!)

So I think I'll take a nailset and drive two little dents into the door. If it matters, the door is about 1/32" (24 guage?) steel with maybe a polystyrene core. Is there any reason I should not take this approach and if not what would you experts do?

Thanks!
 
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  #2  
Old 06-14-15, 10:13 PM
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Those little "nibs" are there to help the lock from turning on the fitting. They dig into the door making it tougher to turn the rosette. When you tighten up the connecting screws "properly" they "pull" the outer rose in tight.
 
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Old 06-14-15, 10:17 PM
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BTW.....the new style Schlage F series locksets have been redesigned after so many complaints from people getting locked out, so that turning the inside knob actually unlocks the turnbutton, preventing you from locking yourself out.

Schlage obviously listened to the hundreds of thousands of complaints to make the necessary modification.
 
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Old 06-21-15, 07:45 PM
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Most residential doors are wood, so, as Global said, the nibs dig into the wood. On commercial hollow metal doors the nibs fit into pre-stamped slots for that purpose. But metal residential doors don't come with the slots, so you must do what you indicated, by punching the indentations or drilling small holes to accept the nibs.
 
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Old 06-24-15, 12:00 PM
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just to clarify rstripes post....most "internal" residential doors are wood. Most external (or laundry) doors are metal clad with flame retardent/heat resistant properties. This has almost become a rule, I believe for life safety. The metal clad doors that come with predrilled cross bores do not have the indents and in all honesty you dont need them.
 
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Old 06-24-15, 04:27 PM
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GlobalLocky -- mea culpa for not responding to you in a more timely fashion. (Well I was more timely than this but my "autosaved" draft did not survive being logged off and I have been waiting for the the webmaster to tell me its out there somewhere and I just didn't click in the right spot.) While I didn't see your original post before I took my frustration out on the door to the garage, I did see on the front door how the rose does tighten down. I had just been afraid to overdrive the screw and strip out the head or something. But with permission all went well. Sorry rstripe that this novice has to agree with Global.

Now just cause I'm curious, I wonder what you pros would have done with my deadbolt. The pre-hung door has a steel outer casing and when they drilled the latch hole, they wrapped a piece of the steel back into the latch hole. Well, the old strike plate had just been screwed on to the face of the jamb, and now I have the double plated Schlage that has to have 3/16" mortised out. So my chisel and I are working along just fine. Then when starting to install the lower plate find out that this little hunk of steel is in exactly the wrong spot! If I put the strike plate in front of it the dead bolt hits it and were I to have mortised out more material and put the strike plate so the piece of steel was within the bolt hole then the bolt would be hitting on the other side.

Having carved up the jamb for both plates I now had a good excuse to buy the vise I had been wanting (doesn't every girl need one of those ). So I hack-sawed out the "under" strike plate where the steel was hitting. The finish strike plate was fine to go since that piece of steel was recessed enough that the finish strike plate sits on top of it. Add some wood filler and paint due to the realignment and all is finished. Is the steel clad frame a typical thing? And was there a different and/or better way to get the strike installed?

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and giving us DIYers the free advice.
 
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Old 06-24-15, 06:40 PM
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Is the door jamb (frame) wwere the strike fits to, wood or metal?

If it is metal, then you could cut out the strike assembly to take the whole of the square edged strike plate and use some GKL bridges, see the last pic....and that will hold the strike within the jamb.

You could use the same product inside the door stile for the latch too.

I have done this for multiple customers faced with a similar dilemma....and had poor advice from supposed professionals that didnt know Jack Schitt
 
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Old 06-24-15, 08:14 PM
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The jamb is wood; the steel is between the jamb and the jack stud. As in no wonder I couldn't drive a screw more than an inch or so into the jamb. As I don't know Mr. Schitt, or M.S. Schitt either, are you saying I could have used that product somehow to neaten up or fill in some of the sizable gap between the face plate and the steel cladding on the door. Name:  IMG_2189.jpg
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I'm hoping that some fresh paint will make it look much better.

So what does the MS stand for? I'm sure it isn't Mississippi or multiple sclerosis or Microsoft - and that is about when I gave up on the Google results - I mean I queried for what does ms in ms lock stand for?"
 
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Old 06-25-15, 09:29 AM
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Yes i have heard of a company that installs a jamb strengthener between the wood jamb and the stud. Designed to prevent door frame Failure.

Did you try to predrill screw holes or just use your driver to screw in?

The GKL Bridges would not have helped with the gaps. They are designed for metal doors and frames to assist with latch an strike installations.

Your door there is a typical residential exterior door with steel clad over a vermiculite filled door frame. Typically, carpenters will use filler to fill the gaps and then paint over. There are some lock manufacturers that provide a plastic/rubber insert that the latch mechanism fits through. That will take up much of the gaps.

A bit hard to see in your picture but the rubbing on the exterior side of the edge indicates that your door has slightly dropped. I suggest either replacing the hinge screws with longer screws in the top hinge and/or splinting the bottom hinge too (so that the door is more plumb.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 11:23 AM
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First time I only drilled shallow pilot hole to keep me driving the screw straight and level. I couldn't drive through the jam strengthener so I kept trying shorter and shorter screws until it worked. But between then and when I did the install I realized the problem was the steel and drilled a deeper pilot hole and punched through the stiffener. Didn't use a large enough bit to get those 3" #10s (unless they are #12s) in but the 3" #8 I had went in fine. Probably not as secure as the B series is supposed to be but I'll just go with the B reinforcer - barking dog.

Good catch on the wear. Not at all surprising since the door to the garage had the same problem but even with the a crowbar propping up the door, longer screws in the top plus a couple in the middle hinge wouldn't fix that one -- it needs a new hinge(s). It also needs new weatherstripping, a paint job, a little bit of bondo. The latter due to the neighbor who when I asked to borrow his sawsall insisted he take a look at first and brawn was supposed to win out over brains - well it does win over steel clad doors and he thought and I hoped that the rose would cover the hammer ding. After he finishes beating on the door, messing around with the hinge pins, he was back with the reciprocating saw. I have to start watching CL and the Chicago Freight ads for one of my own. So given all that I start wondering how much $ to put into this 30 y.o. door before I should just buy a new one. If this were the front door (add some mechanical issues to curb appeal) and I'd be doing the big box circuit today.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 01:32 PM
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or just check in the hinge deeper into the frame. Hinges are cheap tho.But dont forget to splint the bottom hinge.

You could also look into Door Jamb Armor...as a way to secure it better from jamb and hinge sides
 
  #12  
Old 06-25-15, 03:39 PM
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Are you here in Indianapolis looking for work? From their website: It is recommended only for professionals because it requires more advanced handy skills to install. I don't want to practice my new reciprocating saw on my door jambs; then I would have to be buying new doors. Not only are hinges cheap, I am too!

I can see the value in redrilling the deadbolt for the BF screws from Schlage and changing the hinge screws and adding shims - I was really surprised how short the current ones were.

But for any shortage in the home security, I'm gonna have to go with the canine door guard. BTW my little football dog completely lives up to his breed heritage, Lhaso Apso, which is Tibetan for "barking sentinel dog".
 
  #13  
Old 06-26-15, 07:39 AM
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I have a colleague in Indianapolis who installs a significant number of them and with much success.
I'm happy to provide his number if you PM me.
 
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