Floor mounted door closer issues

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-03-18, 09:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Floor mounted door closer issues

Hello,
I had seen a door-closer thread on this forum, and wondered if any of you could offer us some tips.

We have around 10 doors with floor mounted door closers, installed in 1985, and some of them are giving some trouble now. The door closers appear to be 'Garnish' brand, Made in India. I'll post some pictures and describe our problem. The doors have metal frames - looks like aluminium.

Two of the doors seem to have become misaligned, and the door is squeaking against the frame, as in the pictures linked in the imgur gallery below, with descriptions for each pic.

https://imgur.com/a/E5l7B

Earlier, all the doors used to open both ways - ie they could rotate 180 degrees on the hinge. But now, one of the doors is opening only one way - ie only able to rotate 90 degrees.

Any tips on which nuts to adjust etc would be greatly appreciated. If you want any other pics or info, please let me know.
 

Last edited by hn_88; 04-03-18 at 09:31 PM. Reason: html tags seem to be seen in the post!
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-04-18, 02:33 AM
Marq1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA MI
Posts: 2,533
Clearly something has become misaligned, the one picture shows a big crack in the wall so that seems constant.

Hopefully somebody will chime in but guessing those doors are well out of the norm for our experience, maybe not!
 
  #3  
Old 04-04-18, 04:22 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,721
We have a few of that style of opener in our workplace but are North American made.
My experience with them is that internal parts are not available and they are not generally repairable.
My suggestion is to have an experienced door technician from a reputable company look at them.
You could try to find the company who sells that brand.
 
  #4  
Old 04-04-18, 08:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Thanks, Greg and Marq.

The problem is that we are located in a rural region, and it is difficult to get qualified people to work on the doors.

My assistant says that the problems started after he adjusted the screws on the top of the frame, as seen at


I thought these screws were not related to door-closer adjustment, they were just there to hold it in place. Would tightening or loosening these screws cause the door to not open 180 degrees? Maybe @DOORDOCTOR would like to weigh in.
 
  #5  
Old 04-05-18, 04:37 AM
GregH's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 9,721
I too am rural, a six hour drive to the nearest major city but it does not make the opener any easier to repair.
The first step you need to take is to figure out exactly what model of opener you have and then obtain a service/parts manual for it.

Did you attempt to locate the distributor for those units?
 
  #6  
Old 04-06-18, 01:45 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 94
Hello Hn_88, GregH and Marq1

If I was the tech who was called to this door, first thing I would do is check the frame to make sure it is still square (completely vertical) and not leaning in any direction (forward or back or sode to side) using a bubble level check along vertical and horizontal parts of frame to make sure it's level and vertical

if door was removed from frame, use a plumb bob from exact center of the top pivot pin and see if it points to the center of the floor closer shaft, if it does not, then the frame is not aligned and source be the wall or building structure and not the closer.

As I see the crack in the wall at corner of door frame, I wonder if the top pivot is still aligned with the bottom pivot ( closer shaft)

as for the adjustments made at top pivot, not only could a person adjust a sagging door this way (adjustment in top edge of door) but turning the wrong screw could disconnect the top pivot pin from the top edge of the door causing door to drop and lean in the frame.

as for the closer itself, it looks similar to what's used in Turkey and some of europe, Mustad

the single screw in middle of floor plate is for adjusting dampening speed of your closer,

I hope this helps!

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #7  
Old 04-06-18, 04:08 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Thanks Greg and DoorDoctor. Yes, I did try sending an email and calling up to one of the local distributors listed at
https://sites.google.com/site/garnis...arh/contact-us
No reply. Phoned up - they no longer deal with this product. Will try the manufacturer's office also, again on Monday - right now I'm not able to connect to their office phone (mobile number says Not a valid number).
Will also check with a bubble level.

DoorDoctor, when we tried turning the screw at the center of the plate, there was no change for some time, and then the screw completely came out, and we could see a chamber with oil underneath. Does that make sense?
 
  #8  
Old 04-06-18, 08:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 94
Hn_88, yes makes alot of sense being there is a hydraulic cylinder and spring inside the body of the closer.
 
  #9  
Old 04-06-18, 10:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Hi Jess and Greg, an update. All the contact numbers listed for this company are giving a busy signal all the time - I tried for half an hour, trying all the numbers. So I did not get through to the manufacturer.

With a bubble-level app on my phone, I checked the door frames and the door edge itself, and compared to another door which is working well. Frame vertical and horizontal are within 0.5 degrees accurate, just as with the frame of the door which is working well. The door itself seems to be sagging a bit - 1.5 degrees from horizontal as measured on the middle bar.

Checking the top and bottom clearances, I see that the door which is OK has a clearance of around 1 mm throughout, while the door which is not OK has one part which is touching, and the rest has around 1 mm clearance. This seems to indicate that the sagging of the door is not much of an issue, since the door hitting the frame is at the top and not at the bottom.

So I will try to work on the part of the upper frame which is touching the door, which is exactly the bracket in the pic below - only that is hitting the door.

 
  #10  
Old 04-09-18, 07:56 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,181
Don't know anything about this brand, but sometimes there's a large thin nut that encircles the lower pivot that will allow raising or lowering the door to some degree...if you've still got some clearance along the floor. but that would be a temporary fix anyway. As others have pointed out, the real culprit appears to be a sagging header, as evidenced by the crack in the wall. You might drill a pilot hole or two up into the header to see if there's substantial framing you could screw into with a couple of long lag screws. If the timber supporting the header is sagging also, you may have to angle the screws back so as to get into a vertical stud. ...just an idea.
 
  #11  
Old 04-09-18, 05:47 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 94
Rstripe,

the large flat nut you are talking about is ONLY used in situations where the closer is concealed overhead in the frame, (Jackson, Kawneer)

in floor closers the raising of the door is done a couple of ways, shims on top of closer arm(Rixson #28) and elevation screws (Dorma BTS, MAB 7400 some of CRL's models)

another method, pulling closer out of floor and placing shims under it

as for the flat nut on a floor closer at pivot, that's ust a spindle shaft cover so you see stainless steel look instead of dark grey or green cast iron around shaft.

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #12  
Old 04-09-18, 09:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Hi Jess and rstripe,

An update. As I mentioned in an earlier post, looking at the clearances at the top and the bottom seemed to indicate that the sagging is not an issue, or rather, the door may not be sagging at all. The only part of the door which was touching the frame and making noise was found to be just an inch wide, near the upper bracket which holds the door in place. Since the door frame seemed to be aluminium, I tried putting a screwdriver at the place where the door seemed to touch the bracket on the frame, and pushed the aluminium panel down. That seemed to work.

Now, the door does not touch the frame anywhere. But yet, it makes a squealing sound while closing, and also does not open 180 degrees, only opens one way, 90 degrees.

As mentioned by Jess, we tried looking at the central screw which is supposed to control the speed.


Opening the central screw, we could find another screw directly underneath, immersed in the oil. We tried rotating that screw, opening it (turning it anticlockwise), 1/2 turn, one full turn, 2 turns, etc. But no change in the speed of the door closing. So we replaced it in the position we found it earlier.

After pushing down the aluminium panel of the door so that it does not hit the frame, the door seems to have some play at the top hinge. Here is a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMu9-fTEr90

Any inputs on making the door close in a more dignified way would be welcome
 
  #13  
Old 04-10-18, 09:02 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 94
Hn_88,

for the noise, some grease will do at top pivot,

as for the floor closer, I watched the video and didn't ee any checking action (smooth dampening action) instead it slammed, to me it sounds like something disconnected or dislocated inside the closer. I did see the oil level and still looked full, if valve is fully closed and you open door, it should stay open, maybe try closing the valve and slowly adjust valve until smooth speed seen?

as for swinging in other direction, sure there is nothing in frame or latch side of door blocking the swing path or contacting the door?

Another reason, the pin at top pivot is partially retracted into frame (as mentioned your assistant adjusted some screws at top, screw that is in the bigger hole in centerline of the bracket at top) that is not any adjustment, it's just used all the way extended or fully retracted, not a good idea to have it in the middle

If not then the issue could be as mentioned above, inside the closer and may be best option is to have it replaced or rebuilt.

hope this helps!

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
  #14  
Old 04-10-18, 10:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Thanks for the tips Jess. We tried the top pivot retracting screw - it was working well for a door which did not have any issues - unscrewing the screw retracted the pivot. In the case of the door with problems, trying to unscrew the screw - very tight. Looks like the bracket part is warped. Will try grease etc.
 
  #15  
Old 04-10-18, 11:12 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: India
Posts: 7
Thanks a lot Jess and all others who took time out to help us. Our issue seems to be solved to a reasonable extent - the noise is mitigated.

As pointed out by Jess, we were able to retract the top pivot with a bit of struggle, and put grease on the pivot + on the screw which retracts the pivot. With some adjustments, when we put back the door on the pivot after greasing, the squeaking noise is completely removed, and the play of the top part of the door has also vanished. So now this door also closes as smoothly as the other doors we have.

As mentioned by Jess, the speed of the door is a bit excessive, and also it does not pivot 180 degrees. I guess the door closer has something broken inside, as Jess mentioned - tightening or loosening the valve immersed in the oil does not change anything. Since right now opening the door only one way is quite acceptable, and the noise problem is solved, we will stop working on it at this point.

Thank you, everyone, once again.
 
  #16  
Old 04-11-18, 12:40 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 94
Hn_88,

if in the future you do decide to have the closer repaired, I know of a guy in the UK that may have a closer that may fit the hole the Garnish sits in, not seeing the door off the closer, cannot say if taking out the Garnish and putting in another closer similar will have same bottom pivot shape as what the Garnish has.

I know you said you do not want to do anything more with door, but just in case you do choose to get door closer repaired/replaced,

the website for the man that I know in the UK,

Www.midlandsfloorsprings.co.uk

I suggest Midlands floorsprings as your Garnish looks like many of the closers he works on and from seeing the batch code on your garnish, appears to be from 1986. Garnish brand seems to still be around, but using different body style of closer in floor box compared to what you have.

I hope this helps,

-Jess the door closer doctor
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes