ceiling and wall paint peeling in 3 rooms
#1
06-25-04, 05:52 AM
ceiling and wall paint peeling in 3 rooms
We bought a 54 yr. old house 2 years ago. House has a new GAF roof on it 7 yrs. old. Paint is peeling from the cieling on 2 rooms and 1 room is peeling above window and along the side of the window. House has plaster walls and cielings. Called insurance company, they sent out an engineer. His conclusion was bad construction paint was not preped for the plaster correctly.
Also too many vents. we have a ridge vent and pad vents 2 ft away form the ridge vent. Soffit vents and gable vents are also part of the system. He said the pad vents are counter productive for the ridge vents. We had the house inspected before we purchased it and the inspector was delighted about our vent system. Does he have a responsibility because of not recognizing a fault?
Also he said9 the insurance engineer), we do not have enough insulation he said we need more at least 2".
bottom line humidity is formed which gets under the paint and the paint peels.
Insurance company will not pay. What course do we have to take to stop the humidity, to stop paint from peeling and do we have any recourse from the prior owners?
We had a company come out to see what could be done they said all the cielings would need to be drywalled and than painted with a prime coat and a base coat, $14,000.00+
JOE
Also too many vents. we have a ridge vent and pad vents 2 ft away form the ridge vent. Soffit vents and gable vents are also part of the system. He said the pad vents are counter productive for the ridge vents. We had the house inspected before we purchased it and the inspector was delighted about our vent system. Does he have a responsibility because of not recognizing a fault?
Also he said9 the insurance engineer), we do not have enough insulation he said we need more at least 2".
bottom line humidity is formed which gets under the paint and the paint peels.
Insurance company will not pay. What course do we have to take to stop the humidity, to stop paint from peeling and do we have any recourse from the prior owners?
We had a company come out to see what could be done they said all the cielings would need to be drywalled and than painted with a prime coat and a base coat, $14,000.00+
JOE
Last edited by sgtpreston; 06-25-04 at 06:09 AM.
#2
06-25-04, 09:33 AM
Basics
With a 54 yr house, you don't have any vapour barriers behind your drywall. Your insulation is also less than you need (not a big surprise on a 54 yr. house, as insulation technology advanced considerably since it was built). Your house inspector obviously subscribed to the "more ventilation is better" school of thought, although we now know that its both the quantity AND quality of ventilation (balance between intake and outlet; amount of open air channels, etc) that matter. So the insurance engineer is right, the pads do short-circuit the ridge ventilation and the air does not get pulled up from the soffit vents.
I suspect that the company that quoted you the new drywall is also going to install a vapour barrier behind the drywall (if they don't then you'll continue to have problems).
So let's go through this step by step. Lack of sufficient insulation means that the dew point is much closer to the inside wall than it should be. Lack of a vapour barrier means that internal moisture is leaking past the drywall and condensing close to the wall (see first sentence), causing moisture to go into the drywall. Lack of proper ventilation from the soffit also allows moisture to build up in the lower areas of the roof, and contributes to the condensation problem. This is not a major surprise for a 54-year house, most homes we see of that age have similar problems. The questions that the homeowner has to face is whether they are willing to invest the money to upgrade the house to modern standards. If yes, that means investing in a vapour barrier, better insulation, and better ventilation. By the way, it doesn't apprear that the roofer is at fault here either. I think if there's anyone who didn't do their job properly advising you is the building inspector, who should have noted that a house build 54 years ago doesn't have the same structural features as a more modern house, and that the vapour barrier is non-existent, the insulation is below current standards, and the ventilation was probably retrofitted and upgraded later (but not properly balanced).
I suspect that the company that quoted you the new drywall is also going to install a vapour barrier behind the drywall (if they don't then you'll continue to have problems).
So let's go through this step by step. Lack of sufficient insulation means that the dew point is much closer to the inside wall than it should be. Lack of a vapour barrier means that internal moisture is leaking past the drywall and condensing close to the wall (see first sentence), causing moisture to go into the drywall. Lack of proper ventilation from the soffit also allows moisture to build up in the lower areas of the roof, and contributes to the condensation problem. This is not a major surprise for a 54-year house, most homes we see of that age have similar problems. The questions that the homeowner has to face is whether they are willing to invest the money to upgrade the house to modern standards. If yes, that means investing in a vapour barrier, better insulation, and better ventilation. By the way, it doesn't apprear that the roofer is at fault here either. I think if there's anyone who didn't do their job properly advising you is the building inspector, who should have noted that a house build 54 years ago doesn't have the same structural features as a more modern house, and that the vapour barrier is non-existent, the insulation is below current standards, and the ventilation was probably retrofitted and upgraded later (but not properly balanced).
#3
06-25-04, 01:41 PM
Out of the box here. But for the cost I would clean it up and repaint it with some of the V/B paints they have out now. Go for a good R 30 or better 12" or more insulation in the attic and let the vents alone for now. Then see what happens. I dont see how you can go back to the other owners or the inspector after 2 years.
You can do this for a lot less than the $14 K
ED
You can do this for a lot less than the $14 K
ED
#4
06-26-04, 05:26 AM
paint peeling in 3 rooms.
Why isn't the home owners before us responible. This must of happened while they lived there for 5 years, don't they have an accountability to tell us of faults?
This VB paint I would get I would have to repaint the entire cielings in all rooms and repaint the wall that the paint is peeling off or should I repaint every thing?
In the attic there is a floor should I have insulation blown in and what kind? I
know there are different types. What if I close off the pad vents there are 12 of them all 24" away from the roof vents. This way I would have the usage of the soffits and the roof vents. I wouldn,t try to do this until I painted with the VB paint suggested and add insulation to see what happens.
joe
This VB paint I would get I would have to repaint the entire cielings in all rooms and repaint the wall that the paint is peeling off or should I repaint every thing?
In the attic there is a floor should I have insulation blown in and what kind? I
know there are different types. What if I close off the pad vents there are 12 of them all 24" away from the roof vents. This way I would have the usage of the soffits and the roof vents. I wouldn,t try to do this until I painted with the VB paint suggested and add insulation to see what happens.
joe
#5
06-26-04, 08:07 AM
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Call your local boro/municipality/whatever and ask them if there was a disclosure law when you bought the house. But you will have to prove this was a known problem to get anyplace.
#6
06-26-04, 10:03 AM
ceiling and wall paint peeling in three rooms
I went to home Depot and Lowes for VB Paint they didn't know what I was talking about, never heard it.
Do I have to go to a regular paint store? Are there any brand names for this instead of VB paint?
Joe
Do I have to go to a regular paint store? Are there any brand names for this instead of VB paint?
Joe
#7
06-27-04, 12:33 PM
Vapour Barrier paint, and other issues
Ed, the VB paint may work on preventing moisture movement through the painted surface, but the majority of leakage is usually at the joints (wall to floor, door frames, window frames) where the joints are not sealed, and through other openings such as electrical box cutouts and light fixture openings. So just using the vapour barrier paint will not be enough.
Joe, for the ventilation to work, you need to have both quantity and quality. For quantity, I use the ratio of 1 sq.ft. of ventilation for every 150 sq.ft. of attic space, and then split this 50/50 between inlet and outlet. You'll need to work out whether your ridge vents and soffit vents meet this requirement. If they do, then shutting off the pad vents should help, as now the air will be pulled from the soffits. As to quality, you need to have at least 4 inches of clear air channel between inlet and outlet for the air to flow. There are various ways of ensuring this, including the use of styrofoam W-shaped baffles that are designed to "push back" the insulation.
As for the amount of ventilation, there are a number of sites on the internet that publish the R-values for each location in the USA. Find out the right amount for your area and then check that against what you currently have. If, for example, your area requires R-40 and you only have R-20, then you need to add more. Before you add more insulation, make sure you know what you actually need, and where.
Blown-in insulation can work well if properly installed. However, we also see such insulation causing more problems when it is not added evenly (creating "hot spots") or blown into the eaves, blocking the air channels from the soffits.
As for the homeowners prior to you disclosing the "faults", remember that you ARE dealing with a 54-year old house. If the problems you are experiencing have also been experienced by them and they covered it up with a fresh paint job, then maybe you have a possibility. However, if it is a recent phenomenon, then I don't see how you can hold the previous homeowners responsible.
Joe, for the ventilation to work, you need to have both quantity and quality. For quantity, I use the ratio of 1 sq.ft. of ventilation for every 150 sq.ft. of attic space, and then split this 50/50 between inlet and outlet. You'll need to work out whether your ridge vents and soffit vents meet this requirement. If they do, then shutting off the pad vents should help, as now the air will be pulled from the soffits. As to quality, you need to have at least 4 inches of clear air channel between inlet and outlet for the air to flow. There are various ways of ensuring this, including the use of styrofoam W-shaped baffles that are designed to "push back" the insulation.
As for the amount of ventilation, there are a number of sites on the internet that publish the R-values for each location in the USA. Find out the right amount for your area and then check that against what you currently have. If, for example, your area requires R-40 and you only have R-20, then you need to add more. Before you add more insulation, make sure you know what you actually need, and where.
Blown-in insulation can work well if properly installed. However, we also see such insulation causing more problems when it is not added evenly (creating "hot spots") or blown into the eaves, blocking the air channels from the soffits.
As for the homeowners prior to you disclosing the "faults", remember that you ARE dealing with a 54-year old house. If the problems you are experiencing have also been experienced by them and they covered it up with a fresh paint job, then maybe you have a possibility. However, if it is a recent phenomenon, then I don't see how you can hold the previous homeowners responsible.
