I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other
side will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am
I spelling it right? "bull"?).

What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails
every six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia.
The other said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes
will be leaks every six inches in about six months. The original
roofer says this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber
washer underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber
will break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws
to fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering
if it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the
rubber membrane easily?

Thanks,

 

If the idea of a dutch gutter is to hide the gutter look, putting a metal cap on it would seem to highlight what you want to hide. If metal flashing is bent and placed over the ridge, no matter where it is screwed in, it has to be sealed onto the roof to prevent water from getting underneath it. Have you called any companies that do rolled roofing or flat roofs. I get the picture in my head that they can lay a long foot wide piece down, seal it, take care of your leaks and no nails or screws would ever have to be used.

If you stick with the two companies you have already spoken to, I would opt for no holes in the roof inself and screw into the sides only. Exposed nails (with rubber boots or not) directly into a roof make me nervous.

 

Thanks for the reply, it is difficult to visualize what I mean with the limited descriptions I gave. Yes, the idea of the dutch gutter is to avoid having a real gutter and the existing gutter system is built into the edge of the house.

This gutter has been around for 30 years and the reason is because it wraps around a courtyard with an overhead screen enclosure, therefore it has to direct water from the roof to the front via the gutters on all sides. I think this photo explains it better I can word it.

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/gutter/?action=view&current=P1000991.jpg

Here is a close look at the gutter:

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/gutter/?action=view&current=P1000992-1.jpg

I took the liberty if sketching out the cross section of it in CAD as shown here:

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/gutter/?action=view&current=gutterschematic-1.jpg

This sketch represents the existing conditions. The blue areas are the fascia header and fascia. The green piece to the right is a sheet metal flashing that covers the inside face of the gutter and half way on top (why I don't know). The other green piece has a drip edge on one side and cover the entire top. There is a sheet metal screw that punches through both metal sheets into the wood fascia below. There is such a screw every six inches or so along the entire length of the gutter. Leak is happening around the seam there.

The orange layer is a modified asphalt membrane that starts from the edge of the roof tiles, across the entire width of the gutter and the inside face of it. This asphalt based membrane is cracking at various spots.

So now, I need to solve this problem and I prefer a more permanent solution.

I am thinking, why can't I have someone fabricate a piece of sheet metal that goes all the way from the drip edge to the end of the gutter on the other side (as shown in the figure in red in the sketch), this will definitely prevent any leak right?

or have it in two or three pieces, but join them by soldering or fold over with cleats,.

Problem in all the roofers I spoke to did not want to tackle a permanent solution, they just want to caulk the screw holes and the seams, or apply another membrane on top of the one I have, but I think a rubber layer on top pf a cracked membrane will crack easily.

I tried calling gutter companies too, and no one even know what a dutch or super gutter is.

Should I be talking to sheet metal fabrication shop that does onsite measurements?

Thanks,

MC

 

Visit a supply house that specialized in roofing materials and take a look at flat roof membranes. They are a woven rubber membrane and they are thicker than I think you are imagining and designed for exposure. A crack below should have no impact it. They can also recommend contractors to assist you.

Squirting some BlackJack into the cracks will only solve the current problems. Other cracks will probably show up eventually. The asphalt has served its useful life and needs to be replaced.

To custom bend some metal to your suggestion serves the same purpose but is not flexible and will need to be put down with mechanical fastners. The ends/overlaps will need to be caulked together (creating potential water entry points).

The rubber membranes are "heat welded" together to make a watertight seam. The are also put down with pressure sensative adhesives and no mechanical fastners in the field. You will probably need a metal cap along the top edge as you currently have.

Keep us posted... BTW, what time does the pool open?

 

The pool opens after it stops raining LOL.

The problem with my current arrangement is that (1) water penetrates through the cracked asphalt layer and (2) water penetrates through the non-water tight seam between the two L-shaped caps held together by screws.

I can replace the asphalt layer with another membrane. I don't think I can apply it on top, as the cracks are pretty bad - they are not hair line cracks or even large cracks, they are cracks that have been exposed to the sun and now has peeled and curled, so it's not a flat surface anymore. I think it needs to be removed and redone.

But that does not solve the two L-shaped metal I have which is acting as a cap. The problems with the bad joint and with the exposed screws. Are you suggesting I apply the same rubber membrane over the top - including the screws and everything?

I have contacted two more roofers to come by, those that are more experienced with flat roof and have their own sheet metal shops, and see what they say. Either way I think this will cost me a bundle.

Thanks and I will keep posting as this develops.

MC

 

They would take the rubber membrane up and over and then cap it to hold it in place. They can seal the leading edge of the cap if you ask, but if you are getting leakage in this area I think it is a volume of water issue, which would overflow the area anyway. Sight down the roof at eye level and see if it is sagging anywhere that would cause water to spill over into the cap area.

Let us know what the flat roof guys tell you.

 

I know down there they run the heavy box aluminum gutter that can carry the pool screen. So I take it its a older home. Its a long time that I have seen or worked on what I have always known as a Yankee gutter. Id try a sheet metal shop around there and have them make one up that would slip up under the tile side and over lap on the screen side. Under the cap strip that is there. Rivet and solder all the seams and end.