gutter trouble?
#1
02-08-08, 09:48 PM
gutter trouble?
Hey guys, this past fall I had to replace the gutter on the back of my house. Very basic install, straight 33'. 22' down spout. Ever since the install two of my basement windows leak during heavy rains. They never leaked before. The new gutter is about 1" narrower than the old one. Is it possible that this is the problem? I have added 10' of drain pipe to the down spout and it helped a little.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Bud
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Bud
#2
02-09-08, 06:13 PM
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sounds more like drainage issue where the leaders release the water-try to set it up so the water runs away from the house,even if long extensions are necessary,---the other reasoning is you are getting an ice +water backup that runs down the wall and over the top of your basement windows-this can be solved with flashing behind the gutter and ice and water shield applied up to two ft past your bearing wall,problem is you need to remove that areas shingles and replace them after the application of the ice and water shield---the other curious thing is windows on the other floors don`t have this problem,only thing left is if the gutters overflow and hit those windows from outside but the windows should be protected from that unless they`re open,and the easy fix there is cleaning your gutters---what would be good is if people posted their location,and pictures to make it easier to figure out what it is 
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02-09-08, 06:17 PM
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#4
02-10-08, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rgtrough
The new gutter is about 1" narrower than the old one.
The correct placement depends on roof pitch:
http://extension.missouri.edu/explor...q0322art03.jpg
And yes, "gutter" problems can cause wet basements and crawl spaces by directing water against windows, over foundation walls and the like - here's one dramatic example:
Gutter problems flood basement / crawlspace at home inspection in Skokie / Chicago
Last edited by Michael Thomas; 02-10-08 at 07:26 AM.
#5
02-10-08, 12:54 PM
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Michael,
In those illustrations, is it suggesting that the proper distance for the front lip of the gutter should fall somewhere between the arrows? (i.e. never be lower than the bottom arrow?) since, if the gutter is lower, overshooting the gutter becomes a potential problem?
In those illustrations, is it suggesting that the proper distance for the front lip of the gutter should fall somewhere between the arrows? (i.e. never be lower than the bottom arrow?) since, if the gutter is lower, overshooting the gutter becomes a potential problem?
#6
02-10-08, 07:22 PM
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Xsleeper ,
Arrrgh... system just ate a long post about these issues, I'll re-write it in morning...
Arrrgh... system just ate a long post about these issues, I'll re-write it in morning...
#7
02-11-08, 06:31 AM
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XSleeper,
Lot to do this morning … the short answer is yes, if the gutter is low, you can get overshoot.
Real world how low depends on a number of factors, for example water will come off the smooth new metal flashing of an open valley considerably faster then off the rough surface of a new “architectural” shingle roof of the same pitch.
Also, errors in the design and installation of drip edges can either increase the likelihood of overshoot or direct water down the soffit behind the gutter – which may be even worse in terms of damage to the foundation/structure.
IMO, the best way to determine what’s actually happening is to observe the roof drainage system in heavy rain, or at lest direct the full force of a house down the roof from 4-5 feet above the gutter.
One of my projects for this winter is to put together really good page on these problems; we have some photographs which very dramatically illustrate the mechanisms, nature and extent of the damage that can quickly result from these sorts of installation mistakes.
Lot to do this morning … the short answer is yes, if the gutter is low, you can get overshoot.
Real world how low depends on a number of factors, for example water will come off the smooth new metal flashing of an open valley considerably faster then off the rough surface of a new “architectural” shingle roof of the same pitch.
Also, errors in the design and installation of drip edges can either increase the likelihood of overshoot or direct water down the soffit behind the gutter – which may be even worse in terms of damage to the foundation/structure.
IMO, the best way to determine what’s actually happening is to observe the roof drainage system in heavy rain, or at lest direct the full force of a house down the roof from 4-5 feet above the gutter.
One of my projects for this winter is to put together really good page on these problems; we have some photographs which very dramatically illustrate the mechanisms, nature and extent of the damage that can quickly result from these sorts of installation mistakes.
#8
02-11-08, 08:05 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all of the helpful feedback. The 2 times that I have experienced leaking the heavy rain came at night.
I tried observing the problem standing outside in the middle of the night with a flashlight, but my neighbors who didn't already think I am weird are now convinced of it. From your discripetion I think over shoot is a very likely possibility. I don't understand the diagram with the different pitches. Mine is similiar to the 12:7 example. Please explain. Thanks again.
Bud
I tried observing the problem standing outside in the middle of the night with a flashlight, but my neighbors who didn't already think I am weird are now convinced of it. From your discripetion I think over shoot is a very likely possibility. I don't understand the diagram with the different pitches. Mine is similiar to the 12:7 example. Please explain. Thanks again.
Bud
#9
02-11-08, 10:28 AM
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rgtrough,
All other things being equal, if you place a yardstick on edge on you roof, with one end just overhanging the outboard edge of the gutter, there should be a ½” gap.
However, this becomes a problem in the case of long gutter runs. For example if your 33’ gutter is pitched the recommended ¼ / 10 ft (1” in 40’), the low end of the gutter will by 1-1/4” below the yardstick, and you will likely have overshoot.
A really slick roofing job will compensate by adjusting the overhang of the shingles beyond the drip edge and angling back toward the low end of the gutter, but you rarely see this - one reason is the end with the greatest overhang is more subject to mechanical damage from ladders and other objects.
So what you usually see is an attempt to compromise on gutter height, and the only way to establish if that is working is direct observation under heavy water flow.
BTW, this problem is sometimes made worse, and gutter adjustment more finicky, if “gutter guard” type products are installed, especially as a retrofit, and by bending down of gutters and supports by the weight of ice and snow and contact with ladders. IMO if you are going to be working on you gutters from the standpoint of both your own safety and limiting gutter damage it’s worth investing in one of the “standoff” attachments to stabilize the ladder and keep its weight off the gutter, here’s one way we do it at our home inspections:
Ladder-Max stabilizer on an Xtend & Climb ladder for accessing roofs without gutter damage at difficult-to-access roofs at home inspections. (You can't see it in this picture, but the bottom of the ladder is tied off to prevent its slipping off the steps.)
All other things being equal, if you place a yardstick on edge on you roof, with one end just overhanging the outboard edge of the gutter, there should be a ½” gap.
However, this becomes a problem in the case of long gutter runs. For example if your 33’ gutter is pitched the recommended ¼ / 10 ft (1” in 40’), the low end of the gutter will by 1-1/4” below the yardstick, and you will likely have overshoot.
A really slick roofing job will compensate by adjusting the overhang of the shingles beyond the drip edge and angling back toward the low end of the gutter, but you rarely see this - one reason is the end with the greatest overhang is more subject to mechanical damage from ladders and other objects.
So what you usually see is an attempt to compromise on gutter height, and the only way to establish if that is working is direct observation under heavy water flow.
BTW, this problem is sometimes made worse, and gutter adjustment more finicky, if “gutter guard” type products are installed, especially as a retrofit, and by bending down of gutters and supports by the weight of ice and snow and contact with ladders. IMO if you are going to be working on you gutters from the standpoint of both your own safety and limiting gutter damage it’s worth investing in one of the “standoff” attachments to stabilize the ladder and keep its weight off the gutter, here’s one way we do it at our home inspections:
Ladder-Max stabilizer on an Xtend & Climb ladder for accessing roofs without gutter damage at difficult-to-access roofs at home inspections. (You can't see it in this picture, but the bottom of the ladder is tied off to prevent its slipping off the steps.)
