Hoping for an easy out

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  #1  
Old 10-17-09, 09:37 PM
J
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Hoping for an easy out

Hello All,

My Girlfriend and I are looking to buy a house, found one that seems to be enough of a fixer upper we can manage the price and the work. I have considerable experience in most areas of construction, my Mom and now Ex-Step Dad had a remodeling company which was the three of us. The company is now dissolved due to divorce. But we did plenty of roofing, but it was always rip it off and replace it, we never had a situation like this house.

So I don't know a ton about roofing, I do understand the concept behind soffits, to baffles or attic space to ridge or gable vents. The people who built this add on though apparently did not. Basically they put plywood directly overtop of vented soffits, whatevr fascia might have been on fell off and I assume there was never any guttering or it fell off. And the gutterboard is gone as well. The complications start when I found there was no access to the attic over the addon part of the house, it's essentially inclosed from any access. The other issue is half the addon has the inaccessible attic, the other is high vaulted ceilings:



A few pictures:








The last one shows the other side of the house with much more severe damage. The good news as far as I can tell is that the damage is the last 4-6 inches or last of the roofs structure.


In the good area:



THIS is what I believe to be the good news:


Okay so imagine yourself on the ladder in the photo above, your arm holding a camera between the bottom of the roof decking, and the top of the wall header. And this is what you see. Apparently the drywall of the vauled ceilings in the other side, and no terrible amount of moisture. The bad news is, it proves nothing and without a hole somewhere to access this attic I don't know the extent of the damage. However when I did get on the roof (no I did not climb up there with the ladder in that position ;d) it was strong, had no weak spots I could find. And I did not go look under the tarp but the underside of the attic had no major issue in that area. Not worried about something small right now.

My question after all that build up is, would it be possible to simply get up there with a circular saw, cut off the damage ends of the rafters, shingles, and plywood. I realize you can't just cut several inches off your overhang and leave it. So rebuilding it, simple enough to extend out a few inches of new rafters, and splice in some plywood. I realize it's not the best idea, but it's not an entire foot, just a few inches. I'm willing to cut the corner in this regard. The problem occurs when I'm trying to install the first row or two of shingles under the 3rd and 4th. I'm guessing there is a method, one I do not know and can't find. And possibly some adhesive recommended for such work. Obviously it's not going to last 15-20 years, but if it can hold up for 10, when we replace the existing shingles I can start tinkering with properly repairing everything at that time. Plus hopefully we'll have a better budget for such things at that time. Right now just a big finger in the dam.

Also just wanted to run by my thoughts on a fix, replace the last few inches with a proper set up. After that, leave the open attic mostly as is only don't cover up the vented soffits, install baffles from the outside soffits, up through the insulation to the ridgevent over the vaulted ceilings. I'm fully aware this will most likely require ripping out all the drywall in that room to do right and am fine with that.

After that the system should allow air to flow from one side of soffits to the next, through the attic and baffles and of course the ridgevent.

I believe all this damage was simply caused by moisture flowing down the roof structure and being trapped in the plywood ontop of the soffit. Leading to all that rot. From my perspective I see a good amount of work here, but it could have been unbelievably worse.

I would greatly appreciate any advice as like I said, I know some roofing, but ins and outs, or seemingly simple shortcuts to always avoid, I don't know and just want some assurance my oservations on this one seem to .... hold water ;d and my plan makes sense.

I apologize for the length of this post, and am truly grateful for your time, thank you.
 
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Old 10-18-09, 02:28 PM
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Question on the picture with the yellow ladder:

Can you see if the rafters are rotted past the top plate of the exterior wall? In other words, you can't cut them past that point, maybe a few but not all of them. If they are ok, you still have to cut the roof back past that point in order to sister new boards to them. Then you can build the rest.
 
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Old 10-18-09, 08:55 PM
J
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Hey Pulpo, thanks for the reply. The damage is limited to the first few inches of the ends of the rafters. The point where the rafters rest on the walls is considerably farther back. By cutting farther up and sistering the boards together are you referring to the plywood decking?

A few more pictures in an attempt to clarify:

The rafter on the far right edge of this photo is by far the worst one, it is where two roofs basically meet. They didn't bother to tie in the new roof to the old, basically installed it sitting on the old roof and put alot of tar on the seam.








Sometimes it helps to see the plan:


Basically a setup as far as I know like a standard roof with some additional flashing installed to ensure if any water were to find it's way between undisturbed shingles and the new repair it can run the flashing which would also be over the drip edge. I'm sure I won't be able to get that flashing under the undisturbed shingles as much as I'd like to since I'll run into the existing roofing nails. But even a couple inches would provide me better sleep in regards to it standing up to rain over the years.

And then of course the fascia on deckboard under the drip edge and eventually some guttering.

I would most likely fasten the extensions to the existing rafter using 16d nails. Although I have thought about putting in some bolts and washers in on both ends of the new spliced in boards. I would also still use the little metal expansion spacers between the existing decking and my splice in. My only worry would be this system holding the weight of any guttering I would install. At the same time we've had significant rain recently and this area of the house had no issues in the crawlspace with moisture. Still for safeties sake next spring/summer I would be installing gutting on both these run, they only go out 20 or so feet I would estimate, so not a huge cost for managing the run off better.

Let me know if this is an idiotic idea

Thanks.

Edit: These recent images are from the side of the house with the ladder in frame. this side of the house is significantly worse than the other side. Only one board is severely damaged. I'm actually standing on the ladder to take these photos.
 
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Old 10-19-09, 08:51 AM
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You plan looks good from what I can tell. I think the 24" overlap should be enough on the rafters. If you can go back a little more do it. Set the circle saw to 3/4 of an inch. Snap a chalk line wherever you think is the best spot. Remove the shingles there first. There is no reason to run the circle saw through the shingles. Then cut sections, perpendicular to that line. It will make it easier to remove the plywood from the rafters.

Once you have that done, you can start to rebuild. Merging the new shingles with the old depends on how flexible the old shingles are. Bend one upwards. If it snaps, you may not be able to nail under it & may have to use the tar instead. That's your last step, so I wouldn't worry about it yet.
 
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Old 10-31-09, 08:00 AM
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Thumbs up Looks Familiar

Hi There,

What started for me as a 1 x 6 one piece fascia repair ended up as a full replacement of all the fascia and a lot of eave blocking & rafter repair on my house as well. Not as extensive as what I can tell from your pictures, but enough to cost me a couple of weekend in the Texas sun...

Your idea is similar to what I've done to my house. I cut away approx. 4" of four of my rafters like your plan and extended them with 2 x 4's. I chose 2 x 4's so I could slide them past the wall without any trouble and it was only 4". I used 4' sections going all the way in and screwed them in with +/- 6 screws each. I know it's over dimensioning, but I did not want to skimp at $1.75 per stud.

For the fastening method... Try to nail it, hang on it and see if you are pleased.
I never use nails, I do not even own nails, I would screw the extensions in, but with an 8" extension I might play it save and actually use bolt and washer (probably $2-$3 extra material and a lot more time per extension). the first 8" is where everybody enters the roof and gets more punishment than other parts of the roof. I don't want it to just hold it, I want it to hold it easily (I like to over dimension things)


I did not replace the decking yet, because I will start my complete roof replacement in the next few months. The shorter your "strip" of new roof decking is, the more change you have of bending it. If someone steps on it after your done it will bow out more than the other areas and might cause it to rip. if it's only 3 inches or so I would not worry about it too much.


I always hate to open plastic (vinyl) covered problems. It was probably the cheapest way to solve their problem "maintenance free" at the time, or to make the addition and original uniform or something. I bet you will find some problems if you remove some of your siding as well. If this is part of your plan, I would change to a different material.

On the picture I can tell which part is the addition of your house and which is new. When you are redoing your fascia anyway, miter it properly at the corner so the addition looks more original to the house.

Your plan looks good and well thought out. Please post us on the progress.

Good Luck,

J
 
 

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