New Roof - Concern Over Seemingly Poor Workmanship
#1
11-16-09, 12:53 PM
New Roof - Concern Over Seemingly Poor Workmanship
A roofing company with very good references just laid my new shingles this past week. I was told my crew was not their in house crew, but a contracted one. However, the company said there wouldn't be any difference in the quality of the install, and that it would be done to their high standards.
This was a job that I had intended to do myself, but simply ran out of vacation time. The roofing contractor did just the shingles and flashing. All tear off, decking repair, and underlayment was completed by me.
Now, after the install, there are several things which are disappointing. A couple things were specifically mentioned during the bid process and one was even in the contract, but these things were not completed in the method spoken of. I'd like to ask this community's opinion (both pro and homeowner) on some of these items and see what this community has to say about the items of most concern to me. I'll start with the worst and go to the least offensive.
Photos and videos of the issues are here:
photos
chimney video
valley video
roof damage
1) chimney flashing and counterflashing: It simply looks sloppy. I really didn't like the prospect of cutting a reglet into my brick and using one large straight piece of counterflashing for each quadrant of the chimney. But I checked with two masons before the job, and even they told me this was the way to have it done. Personally, I would much rather have had the old ground out of the mortar joints and the new put back in a stepped fashion, and re-mortared into the chimney. The other way simply seems like a shortcut method, and more convenient for the contractor. What I ended up with was a very messy install, in my opinion. Scratched up, dented counterflashing and flashing in 3 different colors with overcuts not sealed, uneven lines, and just overall poor workmanship. But what do you think?
2) box vents: 6 box vents were added to the main roof and two ridge vents to the smaller ridgelines that are at right angles. The 6 box vents are 4 different distances down from the ridge. The distances from the ridge to the center of the vents range from 8.5 - 13.5 inches. The two that are 8.5 are so high up they can be seen from the front of the house and have their flanges under the ridge cap shingles. I've never seen that before. I thought the whole point of putting them on the back of the house was to make them invisible from the street if possible. And 4 different distances from the ridge? Is it too much to expect to have a "professional" crew use a tape and at least make an attempt at being consistent?
3) valley construction: I was told the valley would be a closed cut valley. The salesman mentioned that they sometimes run a bleeder vertically up the valley. I had had another roofer mention this method to me, where they run the bleeder and then just bring the corners of the abutting shingles to the edge of the bleeder. This way they don't have to cut anything. I mentioned this to the salesman for the company I was using and he scoffed at that method saying their valleys are definitely cut valleys even if they use the bleeder. Well - not on my house they aren't. They used the "no-cut" method which seems like another way to simply slap the job down faster and not have to take the time to cut. I asked the owner of the roofing company about it and he said they are using this new method because they have found water can tend to find and follow the horizontal line on the BACK of the shingles where the lamination is when using just a standard closed-cut method. My question, though, is how the seams between the vertical bleeders are going to keep water from following them? The method they used seems to NOT be the preferred method of either Certainteed (my shingles) or GAF. I even called Certainteed about this. Should I be concerned about this bleeder, no-cut valley construction? Why do the shingle manufacturers NOT suggest it if it's just as good?
4) no starter strip or adhesive on the rakes: I was told they use starter on the rakes and was even requested to purchase another bundle for this purpose. They used no starter on the rakes. We're here in MO where high winds are prone in the spring with storms. Is it standard practice to either use starter or adhesive on the rake edges?
5) ridge cap shingles: several don't seem to be laying down, and they range from centered on the ridge (6" on either side) to visibly off-center (7" one side, 5" the other) This is even visible from the ground, though more noticeable from the roof. Is it common for ridge cap shingles to vary along the ridge line? I sure don't remember my old roof being that way.
6) Some other details are more minor, though one was discussed as something they do for aesthetics. That is to run the ridge vent all the way to the end of the ridge, even though the actual ridge opening would stop short of the edge by about one foot. I was told they do this to avoid the step up and down look. They didn't do it on my roof. Stopped the whole thing short of the end of the ridges which got these. Drip edge was done about 4 different ways where the rake drip edge meets the eave.
This was a job that I had intended to do myself, but simply ran out of vacation time. The roofing contractor did just the shingles and flashing. All tear off, decking repair, and underlayment was completed by me.
Now, after the install, there are several things which are disappointing. A couple things were specifically mentioned during the bid process and one was even in the contract, but these things were not completed in the method spoken of. I'd like to ask this community's opinion (both pro and homeowner) on some of these items and see what this community has to say about the items of most concern to me. I'll start with the worst and go to the least offensive.
Photos and videos of the issues are here:
photos
chimney video
valley video
roof damage
1) chimney flashing and counterflashing: It simply looks sloppy. I really didn't like the prospect of cutting a reglet into my brick and using one large straight piece of counterflashing for each quadrant of the chimney. But I checked with two masons before the job, and even they told me this was the way to have it done. Personally, I would much rather have had the old ground out of the mortar joints and the new put back in a stepped fashion, and re-mortared into the chimney. The other way simply seems like a shortcut method, and more convenient for the contractor. What I ended up with was a very messy install, in my opinion. Scratched up, dented counterflashing and flashing in 3 different colors with overcuts not sealed, uneven lines, and just overall poor workmanship. But what do you think?
2) box vents: 6 box vents were added to the main roof and two ridge vents to the smaller ridgelines that are at right angles. The 6 box vents are 4 different distances down from the ridge. The distances from the ridge to the center of the vents range from 8.5 - 13.5 inches. The two that are 8.5 are so high up they can be seen from the front of the house and have their flanges under the ridge cap shingles. I've never seen that before. I thought the whole point of putting them on the back of the house was to make them invisible from the street if possible. And 4 different distances from the ridge? Is it too much to expect to have a "professional" crew use a tape and at least make an attempt at being consistent?
3) valley construction: I was told the valley would be a closed cut valley. The salesman mentioned that they sometimes run a bleeder vertically up the valley. I had had another roofer mention this method to me, where they run the bleeder and then just bring the corners of the abutting shingles to the edge of the bleeder. This way they don't have to cut anything. I mentioned this to the salesman for the company I was using and he scoffed at that method saying their valleys are definitely cut valleys even if they use the bleeder. Well - not on my house they aren't. They used the "no-cut" method which seems like another way to simply slap the job down faster and not have to take the time to cut. I asked the owner of the roofing company about it and he said they are using this new method because they have found water can tend to find and follow the horizontal line on the BACK of the shingles where the lamination is when using just a standard closed-cut method. My question, though, is how the seams between the vertical bleeders are going to keep water from following them? The method they used seems to NOT be the preferred method of either Certainteed (my shingles) or GAF. I even called Certainteed about this. Should I be concerned about this bleeder, no-cut valley construction? Why do the shingle manufacturers NOT suggest it if it's just as good?
4) no starter strip or adhesive on the rakes: I was told they use starter on the rakes and was even requested to purchase another bundle for this purpose. They used no starter on the rakes. We're here in MO where high winds are prone in the spring with storms. Is it standard practice to either use starter or adhesive on the rake edges?
5) ridge cap shingles: several don't seem to be laying down, and they range from centered on the ridge (6" on either side) to visibly off-center (7" one side, 5" the other) This is even visible from the ground, though more noticeable from the roof. Is it common for ridge cap shingles to vary along the ridge line? I sure don't remember my old roof being that way.
6) Some other details are more minor, though one was discussed as something they do for aesthetics. That is to run the ridge vent all the way to the end of the ridge, even though the actual ridge opening would stop short of the edge by about one foot. I was told they do this to avoid the step up and down look. They didn't do it on my roof. Stopped the whole thing short of the end of the ridges which got these. Drip edge was done about 4 different ways where the rake drip edge meets the eave.
#2
11-16-09, 03:04 PM
Call another roofer for a second opinion & get an estimate of what he would charge to correct all the issues, if in fact he agrees with them.
Then call the original contractor & ask him to correct the "problems". If he refuses, at least you'll have a price in case you decide to take other action.
Then call the original contractor & ask him to correct the "problems". If he refuses, at least you'll have a price in case you decide to take other action.
#4
11-17-09, 06:51 AM
Well, I don't consider the dust on the roof & the small bumps in the chimney flashing a problem. The lack of flashing or the way the shingles meet, in the valley, could be important. That's why I suggested a second opinion.
