Kickout Flashing Advice
#1
11-07-11, 12:22 PM
Kickout Flashing Advice
Two corners where the roof meets the brick parapet on my house are leaking down the space between the brick and the wall into my basement. I would like advice on what the proper flashing solution should be.
Here is corner 1 (right):
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
Should cap flashing be installed into the brick joints in addition to a kickout diverter? As you can see the brick parapet extends such that any kickout diverter would need to be fairly long in order to get the water to the gutter. Should the diverter be angled or flush with the brick? If angled to reach the gutter, what should be done to the space between the angled diverter and the brick?
Here is corner 2 (left):
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
In this case the downspout from the second floor gutter drains into the 1st floor gutter right at the left corner where the siding intersects the brick parapet. It is over flowing onto the brick "shelf" and seeping between the brick and wall down to basement.
Seems like a kickout diverter is needed here also but what about the flashing on this shelf? Should it also be tucked into the mortar joint?
Here is a view looking down into this corner:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I have read 2nd story downspouts should not be terminated in 1st story gutters to avoid the overflow issues I am experiencing. I was thinking the 2nd floor gutter should go strait to the ground and the first floor gutter downspout should be moved to the opposite end of this corner. Is that necessary?
Thanks for your help. I couldn't find a way for the links to my images to show up in the body of the post but if you click on the links you should be able to see the images.
Here is corner 1 (right):
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
Should cap flashing be installed into the brick joints in addition to a kickout diverter? As you can see the brick parapet extends such that any kickout diverter would need to be fairly long in order to get the water to the gutter. Should the diverter be angled or flush with the brick? If angled to reach the gutter, what should be done to the space between the angled diverter and the brick?
Here is corner 2 (left):
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
In this case the downspout from the second floor gutter drains into the 1st floor gutter right at the left corner where the siding intersects the brick parapet. It is over flowing onto the brick "shelf" and seeping between the brick and wall down to basement.
Seems like a kickout diverter is needed here also but what about the flashing on this shelf? Should it also be tucked into the mortar joint?
Here is a view looking down into this corner:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I have read 2nd story downspouts should not be terminated in 1st story gutters to avoid the overflow issues I am experiencing. I was thinking the 2nd floor gutter should go strait to the ground and the first floor gutter downspout should be moved to the opposite end of this corner. Is that necessary?
Thanks for your help. I couldn't find a way for the links to my images to show up in the body of the post but if you click on the links you should be able to see the images.
Last edited by mmbridges; 11-07-11 at 12:25 PM. Reason: added picture
#2
11-09-11, 05:50 PM
Member
I'd be inclined to install a "cricket" to divert the water away from the brickwork, sloping downward from the siding wall at a 45-degree angle. Framed with 2 x 4s, sheathed with exterior plywood, then a layer of 30-lb. followed by a solid piece of flashing. In addition to tying into (ground-out) mortar joints in the brick with urethane adhesive, you can tuck the flashing under both the "uphill" shingles and the vinyl siding. You also need to re-apply some caulk between the brick and vertical siding trim piece.
You might do best by taking the vertical downspout all the way down to ground level, either with a series of elbows to get around the gutter, or stop the gutter short (and recap it) and run the downspout straight down. You could install a diverter flashing to catch the little bit of flow that will want to sneak past the downspout.
You might do best by taking the vertical downspout all the way down to ground level, either with a series of elbows to get around the gutter, or stop the gutter short (and recap it) and run the downspout straight down. You could install a diverter flashing to catch the little bit of flow that will want to sneak past the downspout.
#3
12-05-11, 05:19 PM
Hi BridgeMan,
Thanks for your advice. I will not be doing this work myself but want to make sure the contractor I hire implements a 20year solution. So I'll start with the right side leak and ask a few more questions to you and others.
Here is the right side leak with an example cricket superimposed:
1.) The triangle formed by A1->A2->A is simply the projection of the cricket onto the brick. The length of A2 is that of a standard brick width of ~4 inches. If I use your advice and specify a 45 deg angle between A and A2 then the height of the cricket A1 will also be 4 inches. This seems like a very shallow cricket design. given the slope of the roof and the very short A2 section, how high should I design A1 to ensure the water doesn't splash up the side of brick to high?
2.) The triangle formed by C1->C->A2 is the projection of the cricket onto the roof. How long should C1 be to ensure the water coming down roof is not diverted to abruptly?
3.) How should edge A of the cricket be flashed against the brick? It is so narrow it is hard to see how it could be step flashed into the mortar joints. Is there another technique? I want to avoid a solution that relies on some type of sealant between brick and flashing.
4.) How should the flashing at edge B, which goes up behind siding, interface with the flashing at edge C which goes underneath shingles? It is not clear to me which flashing should rest on top of the other at the intersection of B and C.
5.) Should there be downward sloping vinyl siding J channel at edge B where the cricket meets the siding?
6.) What the heck should be done at problem area D were it appears the water diverted by the cricket will not be guaranteed to flow into the gutter?
7.) Given the narrow nature of the cricket, do I still need a 2x4 framing support underneath the cricket or can the cricket be directly attached to (a) the roof sheathing, (b) the sheathing behind the siding and (c) the brick?
I'll stop there for now as that was a lot of questions.
I'm really paranoid about this design because I am having to spend a lot of money repairing the water damage from the faulty design in the first place and I never want to have to revisit this again!
Thanks for your advice. I will not be doing this work myself but want to make sure the contractor I hire implements a 20year solution. So I'll start with the right side leak and ask a few more questions to you and others.
Here is the right side leak with an example cricket superimposed:
1.) The triangle formed by A1->A2->A is simply the projection of the cricket onto the brick. The length of A2 is that of a standard brick width of ~4 inches. If I use your advice and specify a 45 deg angle between A and A2 then the height of the cricket A1 will also be 4 inches. This seems like a very shallow cricket design. given the slope of the roof and the very short A2 section, how high should I design A1 to ensure the water doesn't splash up the side of brick to high?
2.) The triangle formed by C1->C->A2 is the projection of the cricket onto the roof. How long should C1 be to ensure the water coming down roof is not diverted to abruptly?
3.) How should edge A of the cricket be flashed against the brick? It is so narrow it is hard to see how it could be step flashed into the mortar joints. Is there another technique? I want to avoid a solution that relies on some type of sealant between brick and flashing.
4.) How should the flashing at edge B, which goes up behind siding, interface with the flashing at edge C which goes underneath shingles? It is not clear to me which flashing should rest on top of the other at the intersection of B and C.
5.) Should there be downward sloping vinyl siding J channel at edge B where the cricket meets the siding?
6.) What the heck should be done at problem area D were it appears the water diverted by the cricket will not be guaranteed to flow into the gutter?
7.) Given the narrow nature of the cricket, do I still need a 2x4 framing support underneath the cricket or can the cricket be directly attached to (a) the roof sheathing, (b) the sheathing behind the siding and (c) the brick?
I'll stop there for now as that was a lot of questions.
I'm really paranoid about this design because I am having to spend a lot of money repairing the water damage from the faulty design in the first place and I never want to have to revisit this again!
#4
12-06-11, 12:41 PM
Member
I don't think I can give you specific dimensions in response to your questions, as I don't have the luxury of knowing the dimensions of elements in the picture. However, I don't think I'd try to use a triangular cricket (as shown with the red lines), for the simple reason that trying to make a sharply-angled sawcut into the brick (to tuck the flashing into) isn't practical--it will result in the acutely "pointed" pieces of brick remaining wanting to break off. Rather, you might consider horizontally sawing the third mortar joint up from the bottom, and using that as the starting "platform" of your flashing tuck-in. I'd strongly recommend you play around with some heavy cardboard pieces, cutting and adjusting them to come up with the best flashing template. And doing so with your contractor present would also be advantageous, as you could both brainstorm things to see what would work best. I suspect it may take some custom, pre-fabricated sheet metal work to accomplish the leak-proof solution you want, but once you have a template, it shouldn't be too difficult (or expensive). Sawcutting the mortar around the outside corner of the brick would enable you to use a large, trapezoidal-shaped vertical flashing piece there, running down to and having a "lip" over the end of the gutter. Remind whoever fabricates the sheet metal that you want the seam between pieces to be lapped to shed water, and using some sealant at same before final attachment should also be done.
After seeing this picture, I'm thinking you wouldn't need any 2 x 4 framing under the sheet metal flashing, but rather just use heavy enough flashing (16 ga.?) to be self-supporting. And yes, you want a sloped section of J-channel where the flashing tucks up under the siding.
After seeing this picture, I'm thinking you wouldn't need any 2 x 4 framing under the sheet metal flashing, but rather just use heavy enough flashing (16 ga.?) to be self-supporting. And yes, you want a sloped section of J-channel where the flashing tucks up under the siding.
#5
12-06-11, 05:48 PM
Group Moderator
I would agree with most of bridgeman's comments. I would also suggest that the line "B" be level, perhaps at the level of the mortar joint that he mentioned will have to be cut to accept counterflashing. The flashing would obviously extend up behind the siding higher than "B" but the exposed part would be about there. I would also start the first piece of siding in a starter strip so that NO j-channel is needed along the bottom edge of the siding, so that the vertical j-channel on the left and the sloping j-channel on the right would both drain on top of your new kickout flashing.
There is an enormous amount of water coming down that sloping j-channel, it is pretty much like a mini gutter. So keep that in mind.
There is an enormous amount of water coming down that sloping j-channel, it is pretty much like a mini gutter. So keep that in mind.
