Hi everyone, I'm new to the home ownership world and need some assistance. In march this year, my wife and I bought a 10 year old house close to lake Ontario. Everything seemed fine with the house except for one problem: Humidity. At first it didn't seem too out of wack, but during the last couple months when we turned off the air conditioning we noticed the finished basement becoming very musty smelling. As a result, I decided to buy a hydrometre and record the basement's humidity. When I did this it was at 62%. After being a bit shocked by this reading I tested the rest of the house which was also high at 58% (higher then I thought it would be). I ended up calling a environmental consultant to check out the house to which he just gave me a report.

In it he said a few things might be contributing to the problem. Firstly, he mentioned the landscaping on the side of the house is a problem. There is basically a flower bed which is installed between my house and my neighbour's with patio slabs making the path to the backyard. There is mulch and topsoil put down up against both houses. The consultant recommended removing it and replacing it with earth at a grade to pull water away from the foundation. Makes sense

Second issue is the down spouts He said that the spouts are possibly installed into the weeping tile and need to be diverted above ground, away from the foundation. Again, makes sense

The last problem that he detected was that there are some cracks in the foundation when the house first settled, but he said that he doesn't think this is contributing to the problem because of their location (corners of the house where there is a grade away from the foundation.


So my questions on how to fix this.

With regards to the side of the house. I'm not sure how to best rectify the problem. I did remove the mulch and I will be removing the top soil, but what is the best medium to replace it with? Should I simply use earth or is there a better material? Also, the area between my house and my neighbour's is very tight (like all new homes it seems) and I'm wondering how to keep the rain water away from the foundation when there is really a small amount of earth in this area to push the water away (its about 1.5 metres). I'll post pictures soon to give you an idea what I mean.

Second question. The down spouts for the most part aren't a problem except for 2 of them. The first down spout is basically installed at the side of the house where the flower bed is and if I divert the water away it will have to go to the front of the house. Problem is, this is where the walk way leading to the backyard is. Any suggestions on ways of not making this a tripping hazard so that I can get this out past the front of the foundation? The second down spout drains at the driveway and if I disconnect it to the drain, there is no place for it to go except on the driveway. Does anyone know of any ways to deal with this without becoming a problem when the weather gets cold? I'd hate to create an ice rink.

Anyhow, this is about it. If you have any questions or advice please let me know!! Dealing with humidity problems and the foundation is new to me and I'd appreciate all the help. Thanks!

Ps. will get pictures up soon.

 

Your professional advise sounds correct, address all outside water problems first. The next step is not as easy. Unless special efforts were made when that basement was constructed, it was never intended to be a dry basement, extremely few are. The simple coating of tar that we see applied to the exterior of a foundation, IMO, is just window dressing. If you have watched Mike Holmes you may have seen some of his extreme makeovers involving waterproofing a basement.

Your best approach is to tackle everything from the source, landscaping and drainage. Be aware that when the frost sets in the soils around your house can rise 4" to 6" so be generous with any drainage slopes you create. Surface drainage is always better than say a french drain as once things freeze subsurface may not work unless you get down below the frost.

The next step would be to dehumidify. In winter months that may not be as bad as during the warmer months, but watch those readings. You want to be below 45% to 50% where mold starts to grow. And that musty smell you have detected is most likely mold of some form.

I wish there was good news, like a 6' slope to drainage .

Bud

 

Even once the AC is turned off, it seems like maybe you should be running a dehumidifier in the basement until you get the outside addressed. I agree, the solution does not seem as easy as the diagnosis

 

Thanks guys,

Yeah the solution is a bit problematic and while I can do a lot of the work myself, I'm not entirely sure what is the best way. I was thinking about even trying to draw the water away from the side of the house to the front if I could.. but knowing how water is, this would probably be pretty hard eh?

Oddly enough, I did watch the Holm's episodes you are talking about, Bud. This was even before buying the house, which made me very cautious about checking everything before pulling the trigger. Sadly, my inspector (with IR camera and moisture meter in hand), or me for that matter, didn't detect the problem. Very frustrating and worrying especially when I believe there were signs that there was a problem well before buying the house (condensation on the windows and oxidiation on the copper pipes).

One good thing about this, however, is that I did have the basement checked for mold and the results were within healthy range. It was worth the extra 200 dollars of piece of mind. I think this might be attributed to the basement reno being installed correctly (metal framing with safe and sound insulation and a proper vapour barrier). Right now I have a rona type dehumidifer running in the basement, which is keeping everything around 48 to 50%, but the mustiness is still present and if I turn the dehumidifer higher it just stays on all the time.

Oh another thing the consultant mentioned was to install a HRV or ERV system. Not sure what this would do, but I figured I'd mention it.

So, besides getting the basement waterproofed.. Should I just dig up the top soil and put in earth? Or would something else be better solution?

 

What I did around my house was slope whatever soil was there away from the house and the put plastic down with rock over the top.

 

Some of the things you don't know are what did they install for drainage, where does it drain to, were there any moisture issues before that vapor barrier was installed, where is the water table, and how does the house perform during the monsoon season (we all get one at times). Vapor barriers are often omitted to allow the walls to dry to the inside. When used they can allow the moisture to accumulate on just the other side until it matches the moisture content of the soil outside. Thus the importance of outside drainage.

It is only 10 years old so well worth fixing right, ie no lead based paint, no asbestos, and most likely some good insulation.

Is there a sump pump in the basement and is it running? If none, that is always something to add. It will give you an idea as to how much water you are dealing with. In some cases you can pump out enough to reduce the seepage through the walls. In any case having one also provides a first line of defense against that swimming pool getting filled from a water leak, knock on wood.

I don't know your neighborhood, but when there are street drains sometimes you are allowed to pipe to them and since they are 5' down that gives you a place to go.

Are there any drops in elevation you can lean towards?

As Mitch said, keep the dehumidifier running to prevent any mold growth.

Oh, and the HRV, that is an energy recovery air exchange system for bringing in fresh air, usually required for tight homes. In the winter that outside air will be extremely dry, thus once heated up your humidity should drop sufficiently. Just cracking a window can do the same, just at the expense of some energy. Any windows in the basement?

Bud

 

I'll try what you did Mitch, hopefully that'll work with getting the water away far enough without finding its way back.

As you asked, Bud, There is a bit of a grade from the back of the house towards the front. Its not drastic, but its something. Maybe by putting down the plastic I could draw any water out towards the front of the house? If I could do that I have a feeling it'll probably solve most of the problems. Interesting enough, I now believe the problem is coming from that side of the house. After the rain we got over the past few days the humidity and mustiness is strongest from that side of the basement (which is mostly open to the furnace room). I put the dehumidifier in there and it seems to contain the mustiness to that location. The rest of the basement seems to smell ok now.

Today I redirected the down spout on that side of the house, so hopefully that will also help. I'm thinking come spring time, running some PVC piping from the downs spout under ground to a lower pitch at the front of the property. landscaping at the front of the house and out towards the curb. Do you think that would be advisable? Seems like the only thing possible considering how tight my walk way is with the neighbours property.

Also, thanks for suggesting the sump pump, Bud. I'm going to look into installing one. We do have a creek that does a fork through the neighbourhood before exiting into the lake. So it very well might mean there is a higher water table here. I guess the only way I'd know if there was if I installed the sump pump, right?

So yeah, I still have to divert the other down spouts still, but we'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the suggestions! If you have any others please fire away!

Clayton

 

Ok, Update. Need some more advice

I gotta say I'm pretty deflated at the moment and apologize, After thinking everything has been going well, especially after getting all the down spouts diverted, I hit a problem.

When digging up the landscaping at the side of my house I noticed something or lack of something. There is no tar or membrane, but after digging down at the the neighbours side their foundation there is.

So my question is.. did the builder forget to do this step with my house when it was built? What is the normal procedure for treating a foundation before the back fill is added?

In your opinion, what should I do? Since I'm assuming that this is probably the problem with the humidity in the house, should I just forget about grading the landscape and get it waterproofed?

Your help is extremely appreciated.

 

Is it a case you just didn't dig down to where they started applying the tar? If so, it wouldn't be too bad to dig it out and clean and apply something. Tar, unfortunately isn't the best has time has proven. But it is better than nothing To go crazy on just an upper area wouldn't buy a lot. Like the Holmes show, to water proof it is a big job.

If he omitted all of the tar, call Mike , or at least take pictures so you can show what you found. You would expect an inspection would have spotted that.

Dig into it a little more and see if it is just lower than expected. Product failure has some limitation on liability. Omitting a required product can be disputed anytime you want. Just a builder and not a lawyer.

Bud

 

Thanks for getting back to me, Bud. I'll try digging a bit deeper and see if I find anything. The rain this week is not letting up. I guess its monsoon season like you said.

 

Ok thanks for the advice to dig deeper, Bud. I was wrong, there is a membrane around the foundation. Problem is it was installed low on the wall for some reason and is missing about 1.5 feet of coverage. I dug up the opposite side of the house to compare and the membrane on that side is where it should be. So, went inside to the basement and cut into the vapor barrier/insulation strip against the wall in the furnace room and the wall is indeed damp and cold, but more at the top of the wall where the outside wall is exposed. If I put my hand to a lower position on the wall it isn't as bad. So yeah, I'm not going to put all my chips in one pile, but I think this very well might be the problem.

So yeah, now what?

I was thinking about tarring the existing wall and overlapping a new membrane and then continuing on what was recommended by the inspector. Do you think that would be advisable? Not sure how much I should overlap the membrane though.

Anywho, thanks again!


I also have to dig up a couple patio stones at the back of the house and see how the coverage is there.. if its low, I'm not looking forward in fixing it.

 

Isn't it fun to be a home owner .

6" to 12" overlay should be plenty is you can get down there. Whatever you get will be miles ahead of nothing.

Without going back and reading the thread, if there was a vapor barrier, that is why the moisture accumulated, no direction to dry. Air seal yes, vapor barrier no.

I missed the safe and sound you mentioned, that sounds like the Roxul, which should be good. Nice that something we have in abundance (rocks) can be used so effectively.

Bud