Big dillema - Nails vs staples

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  #1  
Old 02-07-13, 08:27 PM
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Big dillema - Nails vs staples

Hi everybody .

I am new at this forum and as home owner as well. My girlfriend and I are very close to put an offer for the house here in Florida. Here is our dilemma...
House is under foreclosure and there is lots of things that we will need to tackle to call it a home. It's a 2 story home, lower level is CBS and second Flor is a wood frame. My major concern is roof. It looks nice from outside and there is no visible leaks or water damage, but plywood sheets underneath the roof tiles are stapled not nailed. I heard that staples are illegal in FL.
I am afraid that any larger hurricane could put us in danger. On the other end house is on perfect location for us, and we are impressed with overall condition (it's still a foreclosure home). This could be a deal breaker (or not?).
I am wondering what you guys and gals think.
Thank you in advance!

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  #2  
Old 02-07-13, 09:09 PM
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Hopefully someone more familiar with Florida codes will chime in, but at any rate, you can't expect older houses to be built to current standards. As I understand it, the FEBC has a code in place so that when a roof is torn of and is being replaced, it requires contractors to inspect roof sheathing and renail as needed using table 611.7.1.2 to supplement existing fasteners (of any type).

http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support...%20to%2015.pdf

This does not mean your roof needs to be torn off, or that your roof is going to blow off. Since it's a tile roof, you hopefully won't ever be replacing it... unless another katrina, wilma or andrew comes along.

If you are in the attic inspecting and you see a long row of staples that have clearly missed their target, it WOULD be prudent of you to take a hammer and prybar up there with you and see if the sheathing in that area was renailed or not. If there are areas that were missed, then yes, that would be a warning flag.
 
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Old 02-07-13, 09:13 PM
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Nice looking home. How old is it ?
 
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Old 02-07-13, 09:14 PM
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Thanks for reply. We really like the house, how much I should expect to cost me to bring the roof up to code.

Some structural details:

[TABLE="class: roundOutsideShadow width100percent, width: 423"]
[TR="class: gridrow, bgcolor: #F6F5F0"]
[TD="class: Subtitle2Center, colspan: 3, align: center"]Structural Element for Building 1[/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
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[TR="class: gridrow, bgcolor: #F6F5F0"]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, align: right"]1.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Exterior Wall 1[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]CB STUCCO[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gridrowalternate, bgcolor: #F6F6D1"]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]2.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Year Built[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]1990[/TD]
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[TR="class: gridrow, bgcolor: #F6F5F0"]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]3.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Air Condition Desc.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]HTG & AC[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]4.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Heat Type[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]FORCED AIR DUCT[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]5.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Heat Fuel[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]6.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Bed Rooms[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]7.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Full Baths[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]8.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Half Baths[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]1[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]9.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Exterior Wall 2[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]N/A[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]10.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Roof Structure[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]GABLE/HIP[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]11.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Roof Cover[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]CONC. TILE[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]12.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Interior Wall 1[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]DRYWALL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gridrow, bgcolor: #F6F5F0"]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]13.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Interior Wall 2[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]N/A[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]14.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Floor Type 1[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]CARPETING[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]15.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Floor Type 2[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]CERAM/QARY TILE[/TD]
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[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 5%, align: right"]16.[/TD]
[TD="class: TDLabelRight, width: 40%, align: right"]Stories[/TD]
[TD="class: TDValueLeft, width: 55%, align: left"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
  #5  
Old 02-07-13, 09:25 PM
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To bring the roof up to today's code ?
Would require the removal of all the tile

Quite a job. It's going to take someone in your area to give you an estimate.

Maybe someone from Florida can shed some light on it.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 04:02 AM
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IIRC the "staple" thing you mention applies to the installation of shingles, which is not approved by any manufacturer that I know of. It was popular for a while, but tests showed failure rates too high in windy areas. Depending on the length and type of staple sheathing can be applied with them, although ring shanked nails is the norm.

In no way would I attempt to "fix" something that isn't broken. You say there is no leaks, and with that type roof, you probably won't have any for a decade.

I am not from Florida and make no qualms about not liking sand between my toes, so I'll defer answers to a native. They will chime in here shortly.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 05:50 AM
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I used to live in fla and remember when they outlawed staples - for shingles! The codes changed quite a bit after Andrew [1992 ?] but a lot has to do with how a house is constructed. I've seen some carpenters skirt or even ignore the code and somehow pass their framing inspection

I'm a painter, not a carpenter [so if they say different - listen to them] but I would think if you found any loose sheeting on the roof you could screw braces both to the sheeting and rafters to secure it better.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 07:23 AM
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Remember that 'code' is for new installations of whatever you're doing. Rarely (if ever) does the local code enforcement group make older installations comply with newer codes. I've only seen it done with things like smoke and CO detectors, GFI receptacles and other low-cost improvements. I doubt anyone would make you update the roof to current standards. It's quite possible that when the roof was installed it was fully up to code.

As with others, I'm not familiar with Florida building standards, but I would think that stapled plywood isn't a significant cause of roof failures in high winds. I would spend the money to ensure that you have hurricane straps on your roof joists and sill plates. Those are reasonably inexpensive additions that have been proven to significantly protect houses.

I ran across this. It reads like a 'study' that was paid for by a nailing manufacturer, so take it for what its' worth... But I did find it interesting that they state that "Outside of
Florida, staples are still considered acceptable for building in other hurricane-prone regions."
http://www.ihrc.fiu.edu/lwer/docs/Ye...tenerStudy.pdf
 
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Old 02-08-13, 07:33 AM
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Just sharing my thoughts on this from a painter's perspective and no clue about roofing...

If it's lasted over 20 years already without issue, can't we assume that it's not a problem? In terms of making something hurricane proof, do what you can but Mother Nature is variable and moody.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 07:44 AM
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OK, you didn't ask but I have to chime in with this anyway - don't buy a house with anyone other than a spouse unless one of you can afford the entire cost yourself. I've seen too many boyfriend/girlfriend home purchases go bad when one packs up and leaves and the other can't afford the place.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 09:20 AM
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I would echo what Zorfdt said and encourage you to get hold down clips on your rafters (if they don't already exist) before I worry about the sheathing. The last thing you want is your sheathind securing fastened to your rafters as they both fly thru the air on their way to your neighbors back yard.

You could probably also add some angle clips to secure the sheathing to the rafters at some important areas just in case the staples are suspect. Of course if you are screwing into the sheathing the screws will have to be very short to ensure that you don't penetrate you deck and create a problem where you don't have one. Simpson Strong-tie has a multitude of products that you might be able to use.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 10:31 AM
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Back in the 80's the fla bldg code required hurricane clips on every rafter/truss and a diagonal metal strap [from bottom plate to the top] on wood frame homes.

Mitch said "don't buy a house with anyone other than a spouse unless one of you can afford the entire cost yourself"
I agree!! While a couple might intend to live together forever, it's easier to quit a relationship than end a marriage. You don't want to set yourself up for a future financial nightmare.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 10:48 AM
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It's a very solid relationship... We are not going anywhere
 
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Old 02-08-13, 10:52 AM
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That's what everyone in your situation says. If you don't want to heed my advice, that's fine, you don't have to do so. That said, you came here looking for advice and I would be remiss if I didn't try to help you make good decisions.

Good luck to you.
 
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Old 02-08-13, 04:20 PM
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OK, guys, we're talking roofing here, not relationships, although points are well presented. We'll leave the relationship to the OP and advise him as well as we can on the roof. Thanks.
 
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Old 02-09-13, 09:05 AM
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Going out on a limb, I going to assume you are not paying cash for the home? Before the lender will let you buy the home it will be inspected. If the inspector has any concerns you will hear about them. You could also contact the inspector and express your concerns.
 
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