leaking from edge of roof

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Old 08-29-13, 05:12 PM
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leaking from edge of roof

Ok so its a new house to me. Roof is pretty new. It was raining nothing too crazy and no wind. Got a bit of water coming in above the window. There are a few other places inside the house along the front that have a slight bit of discoloration from previous rain. Nothing crazy but something that should be taken care of. I pulled apart the inside of the house to see what was going on thats why it looks so bad.

Plan on putting up gutters in a few months if that makes a difference. Should I be looking for anything?

If you see the picture where I put the red you can see what may be marks from rain dripping down. not positive though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Old 08-29-13, 07:09 PM
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Ok, so where the pictures of the roof?
Just a few things it could be.
No tar paper.
No starter strip.
Rotten sheathing.
No Storm and Ice shield.
 
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Old 08-29-13, 07:56 PM
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Any ways to check without ruining shingles?
 
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Old 08-30-13, 04:36 AM
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Welcome to the forums Peter!

Can you shine a light in the attic to verify where the water is coming in at? Also it looks like there might be gaps in the siding and is that a hole where the circle is on the fascia or just peeled paint?
 
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Old 08-30-13, 05:34 AM
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I missed the part where you lived in NH.
There must be Storm and Ice shield by code in your area.
It's a solid 4' wide material that sticks down to the sheathing, then the shingles go over it.

If I was there to check it out I'd start by looking to see if there's enough over hang on the shingles.
There should be at least a 1/2 sticking out past the drip edge.
Then if you have 3, tab shingles check to see if the granules are a all worn off where the tabs are.
Lift up the shingle on the bottom edge to see what's under it. There should be a starter strip which is most often simply shingles installed up side down that where installed so the seams do not line up with the seams in the shingles.
At a bare minimum there also should be tar paper under the starter and shingles.
Now get on top of the roof and look for missing shingles, exposed nails, buckled or blistered shingles.
Look for UV rotted rubber seals around any roof vents.
Gaps in any flashing.
 
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Old 08-30-13, 08:58 AM
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Shingles on the roof look ok. Cant get inside of it to see as no attic in this spot. I don't think it could be coming all the way from the dormers.

Check out these pictures. It goes that metal edge; then tar paper then shingles.
 
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Old 08-30-13, 11:22 AM
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The end of the shingles should come out past the drip edge ...... but I'm a painter, not a roofer.
Don't know that the gap above the siding is letting water in but it's possible although those leaks would show up further down the wall. The water that damaged the tape joint mostly likely came from above. It might be a challenge to pin point where the leak is occurring
 
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Old 09-02-13, 06:20 AM
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I think water is wrapping back under the shingles or else seeping into the gap above the fascia, and then finding a way into the house from there. The drip marks you see are water that didn't already make it into the house continuing down the wall. Gutters will help somewhat but you need that roof fixed so you have a proper overhang and either drip edge or gutter apron. If you just put a gutter up with everything else as is water will still come behind it and go into the house. If it has an opportunity, which it does in your case, water will curve right under those shingles and run uphill in heavy rain, and can also be forced up there by wind. This happens before your gutter has any opportunity to do its job.
 

Last edited by eharri3; 09-02-13 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 09-02-13, 06:41 AM
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First row of shingles where installed at least 1" short of where they needed to be.
Sure looks like in one picture your lifting up the top layer and the starter strip and the ends are even to each other. A huge no no.
The first starter needed to be cut at the notch in the top of the shingle to off set the seams.
Adding gutters will do 0 to fix this situation.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 07:24 AM
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Found the problem looks like the flashing up by the dormers. Since the ceiling is sloped it just runs down the drywall into the front wall. Going to tar the dormer edges as a temp fix next time it dries out and hopefuly that solves it Run a dehimidifier for a while and rip out the front drywall. Has a bit of mold couldn't been worse i guess.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 07:26 AM
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The tar may work for awhile but the leak will eventually come back. The flashing should eventually be re done, or metal flashing needs to be used along with tar in the repair work. And that roof edge is still a problem. It sounds like someone did some shoddy work on the last roof replacement. It could be wasted money and effort to do any significant inside repairs if the outside doesn't get fixed correctly.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 09:18 AM
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ok check out what the dormer looks like. The wood is rotting around the sides which are more than likely a major contributor. Is there a proper way to fix this before winter besides me pulling all the shingles are doing the roof over.

How do I properly fix the wood around the dormer?

Thanks so much !
 
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Old 09-02-13, 10:22 AM
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To my untrained eye that does not look like it was properly flashed and the repair may be more involved than you are hoping. Hope a roofing guy chimes in soon, but it looks like there are issues on that roof that a good inspector should have keyed in on as potential causes for rot and water intrusion.
 
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Old 09-04-13, 06:03 PM
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To start this show.
Water can enter at or near the peak of a roof and travel twenty foot before coming through a nail hole or joint in the decking to hit the ceiling and soak through the sheet-rock.
In other words, you could climb into the attic, if the house had one, and locate where water is dripping through the decking, and still not find where the water is getting under the shingles.
That being said.

A dormer, or any wall, where the shingles butt up against it as with your dormer, is the worst thing in the world to have on a house, because it is virtually impossible to prevent water from saturating the wood from behind the board causing it to rot. As you can see happened with the corner trim in the bottom left photo.
When I replaced wood trim on a dormer such as yours, while I was still working, I at least primed the back and bottom edge of the board first to help seal the lumber from possible water saturation.
Any unpainted wood surface is going to absorb water that comes in contact with it, and if the board is put up first, then painted, the entire back side of the board can absorb water, because it is still bare wood, and will rot from the back out, in such a way that you will never know about it until there is nothing left but the paint.
As is obvious from the bottoms of those pieces of trim.

Flashing such a wall is a tricky process.
Primarily because the average person wants to install flashing the easiest way possible, one long, continuous piece, and believe that it will be sufficient.

Flashing behind the wood and overlapping the shingles will not stop bare wood from rotting, probably help make sure it rots quicker, unless the bare wood is raised up off the flashing by a half inch or so.
Flashing beneath the shingles is guaranteed to allow water to get under the shingles.
But over the shingles leaves what some home owners believe to be ugly.
With that wood siding on the dormer, I would cut flashing in pieces that can be pushed behind the overlap on the siding in steps, which prevents water from getting behind the flashing, but doesn't allow water to soak the bottom of the wood.
Let the bottom of the flashing overlap the shingles by six inches or more and put sealer between the flashing metal and shingles.
If you don't care for the appearance of the silver flashing over your shingles, then you cut shingle pieces that can cover up the flashing, but don't seal those cover-up shingles to the flashing, as sealing them to the top of the flashing will result in trapping water.

That wood trim on the corner of the dormer is going to present a problem, unless you want to cover the entire piece with metal or vinyl appropriately sealed and caulked.
And take the extra time to at least prime the entire board before putting it up, as it will help the board to last longer.
And if you just replace the wood trim, even after priming the board before you put it up, look carefully at your bottom left picture.
Water is going to run along the shingles directly against the wall and straight behind that piece of corner trim.
You've cut the board to size, you've primed the entire board, leaving no bare wood at all and waited till tomorrow to give the primer plenty of time to dry.
Before you nail the board in place, get your "adhesive" caulk and place a good bead of caulk along the back edge, especially the bottom of the board and nail the board up to cause the caulk to squeeze out all along the edges, and remove the excess caulk that was squeezed out.
Check and make sure that there are no gaps before you apply the finish paint, and if they are, caulk them before you put on the finish coat.
It cost you a few extra bucks and takes a little bit more time to do it, but I can virtually guarantee that it will add years to the life of that wood.
And as eharri3 said, doing repairs to the inside before curing the leaky roof problem is going to be wasted money.
 
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Old 09-04-13, 07:28 PM
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So should I do this in step flashing how long? What about on the bottom edge where it meets up with the side flashing.
What u really would like to do is pull up all the singles around it through down that sticky stuff then flash correctly and reshingle, just don't know it it would work with pulling up the shingles
 
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Old 09-04-13, 09:42 PM
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oop, we have a question that I may or may not be able to answer accurately and correctly.
But I'll give it a try.
The house appears to be thirty to forty years old, not painted around the dormers in at least ten years.
Bought it as a fixer upper, didn't you?
I am not familiar with building codes in an area of heavy snow and ice.
In truth, not extremely familiar with written codes even down south, but know most of what I know from hands on, nail driving experience.

If I had the contract to work on the area around the dormer, the shingles appear in the photo to be in fairly good condition, and I most probably would not remove any of them, unless it was required for some reason to accomplish the repairs to the dormer.
I'd have a tarp ready to cover the work area over night just in case I couldn't accomplish the job in one day.
I'd remove virtually every piece of the exterior wood on the dormer, including all wood siding, and all trim all the way down to the studs.
If any of the studs were damaged, I'd remove and replace one, then remove and replace the next damaged stud.
I see in one photo that there is no nailer or plate that wood siding could be secured to on the main roof, so I would certainly place a 2x4 plate on the roof for a nailer while I had everything uncovered.
How familiar are you with doing carpentry work?
After everything is stripped down to the dormer frame, I would place a continuous piece of flashing across the entire length of the bottom beneath the window to extend 3 to 6 inches beyond the outside dormer wall, and at least 4 to 6 inches overlapping the shingles. Cutting a slit along the upper portion of the flashing so that the extension could be folded down to lay flat on either side of the dormer frame.
Put a liberal coat of tar between the flashing and shingles before you tack down the edge of the flashing. To cut down on the mess that the tar will make, I generally leave the lower inch bare metal so that when the flashing is nailed down tar is less likely to squeeze out at the edges.
Cut the bottom board to fit beneath the window leaving about 1/4" space between the bottom of this board and the fold of the flashing, and liberally prime it.
With the wood siding removed, you "can" use a continuous piece of flashing on the sides in the same manner so long as you make certain to leave at least a quarter inch space at the bottom so that the bottom of the board does not come in contact with the fold in the flashing.
You appear to have about a 10 pitch or better on that roof from the pictures, so the more space you can feel comfortable with leaving at the bottom the better. Remember the reason for leaving the space at the bottom is to help prevent water from coming in constant contact with the bottom of the board.
And the "sides" are the greatest source of water caused damage.
If you use continuous flashing on the sides, allow six or more inches on the studs and six inches on the shingles, and when you put the flashing on the sides cut the part that lays on the shingles long enough to overlap the flashing you put beneath the window.
If you can work it out, then it would be a good idea to fold the flashing that is nailed to the studs around the corner up front. And liberally tar and feather all along the folded corner before you put the flashing in place.
Tar and feather the upper five inches of the flashing and put felt paper, house wrap, and/or black board over the studs, and overlapping the flashing to within about an inch of the fold.
I generally mark on the flashing and soffit the location of the studs for nail placement before covering the studs as I use no more nails through the paper or wrap than I absolutely need to.
There's going to be enough holes in it when I nail up the wood siding, or screw up the vinyl siding.
That's my easier method of installing flashing.
If I step flash, then I do pretty much the same thing except the bottom board is nailed up and covered completely with flashing that folds to extend four to six inches along the shingles.
The second board is nailed in place and a piece of flashing is cut to cover the board from the long end to several inches beyond the short end of the bottom board, even if that ends up being a piece that completely covers the second board.
The bottom of the second board overlaps the top of the flashing of the lower board.
Follow the same basic rule of several inches beyond the short end of the lower board.
I also put a good bead of caulk between flashing and wood, about an inch from the edge as I go up.
 
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