Efflorescence issue after french drain installed

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  #1  
Old 02-19-14, 07:14 AM
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Efflorescence issue after french drain installed

Hello,
I had an interior French Drain installed around entire house, 2 sump pumps, and 1 battery back up.


Where the company cut the floor (about 8 inch from the wall all the way around), some spots have efflorescence exactly where they cut the floor. The floor was stained or painted, hard to tell it is very very old so it is kind of chipped up.

He painted liquid rubber over some areas, some helped and some did not.

My question is, is this normal or common?
Is there a way I can fix this for good?
 
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Old 02-19-14, 09:12 AM
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Water proofing and drainage should have been done outside the wall not the inside.
 
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Old 02-19-14, 01:29 PM
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It seems like my area it is more common for it to be done inside than out. I'm not arguing your point since that would be the better solution, but I have talked to many different waterproofing companies and home owners who have had it done in the inside saying it helped them 100%
 
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Old 02-20-14, 05:36 AM
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joe's right - waterproofing IS always done from the exterior inside, its called water management ( just curious - mid-atlantic ? ) i think you may have been thrown an exterior $$ only to hear there was a less-expensive ' cure ' - a sub-floor water management system ( incorrectly called a ' french drain ' ) avail for MUCH less,,, &, since they're already working nearby, you can save even more $ by signing now - sound familiar ? that's usually why buyers pick the interior - its cheaper $$$$,,, but that's another story

conc should have been placed next to the bsmt wall, not 8" from it - an hdpe fabric ( waffleboard ) should show about 3" above the replaced floor - 6mil plastic shouldda been placed over the pipe cover crush'd stone to prevent vapor transmitting UP thru the new floor.

liquid rubber ? get that off & try some kryton or xypex - that may be the only thing that works now

pm me w/contractor's name - i owned a nj wtrproofing co @ 1 time - best wishes !
 

Last edited by stadry; 02-20-14 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 02-20-14, 11:08 AM
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6-8 inches was what he dug out, but he did place the pipe along wall. He did everything you said.

Honestly I know a dozen people who had this interior method done with not knowing any from exterior. I live near Philly, Pa.

Again, I am sure the exterior method is 10x better since 0 water gets in your house. The cost seemed much more, something I could not afford. With seeing how others did their homes with the results, I went for this method.
 
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Old 02-20-14, 02:32 PM
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Fieldsy -

Interior drain tile can be superior for some locations. Usually, they are dictated by a lack of good initial construction, and are required after the attached garages, steps, patios and exterior plantings and landscaping is done and exterior tile can be used. Fortunately, interior drain tile can be superior for some applications to reduce the hydrostatic pressure under the slab that can cause cracks and water penetration. I know of some builders that initially install both interior and exterior drain tile (with weep hoses leading to the gravel fill around and under the perforated pipe that has a bottom elevation below the bottom of a footing as a standard on all homes.

There was not a good description of what you have because the term "French drain" is often used incorrectly. Some people that sell plastic trenches or coves/collectors are not waterproofing (just collecting water that has already leaked into the living space). - They seem to think the "french drain" is a good term to use incorrectly to get a quick sale for "peel and stick" system.

If you have a existing basement with strip footings and block or poured walls, a proper interior system is very possible. I did my own with help from my 12 year old son and and a guy with a concrete saw to score the slab for removal that was about 12-16" wide and was 4" inside of the face of the basement wall. If you have a "raft" floating foundation properly installed, it is more costly to do a proper interior drain tile installation.

If it is a proper drain tile installation in an existing home, it should have a mixture of rock and concrete sand around and 2" under the pipe inside a wrap of a filter fabric.

The efflorescence (well after installation) is sign any buried pipe is not doing its job. Exposed "liquid rubber" is just a band-aid.

A 4" floor slab is not a real necessary structural item, but some codes do require it to be poured against the bottom of the wall for additional lateral support. When I did my basement, left a 12" wide strip of the slab in place every 6' or 8' to maintain the integrity and lateral support.

Your project might be some type of hybred that may actually perform.

The purpose of the drain tile is to remove the moisture before it gets into the living or possibly habitable area or added pressure on the walls. You may find that what was done is effective and what you are seeing is really just cosmetic problems.

Dick
 
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Old 02-21-14, 03:47 AM
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you can see the waffleboard but how do you know IF there was vapor barrier ? think under-floor piping may be doing its job correctly since there's no apparent wtr leaks,,, 6mil vapor barrier under the new conc is to prevent slotted pipe's water vapor from rising,,, conc's like a sponge - it will suck water

dick's right - floor's purpose is to prevent wall implosion due to soil's lateral pressure,,, 2nd is to give us something clean on which to walk

the usual systems treat water leak, NOT water vapor
 
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Old 02-21-14, 06:16 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys. This all makes sense.

The past couple of months my area has been getting a TON of water (snow, rain). I have not had any leaks in my basement whatsoever (used to get 4 bad spots). The drains are stopping the water from coming in onto the floor. The efflorescence is not too bad, but the thing is I was maybe planning on tiling my basement floor.

Would tiling over an efflorescence area be problematic?

Again thanks for the replies.

btw....each company I have dealt with (talked to 5) offered the option to do the exterior system, but it was 2.5x-3x the cost in average. I'm a new home owner and I am learning fast about the powers of water.
 
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Old 03-01-14, 02:02 AM
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try some xypex or kryton 1st - either may resolve the issue,,, get it out of your head whatever you need can be found at the apron/vest store,,, all i buy there are foam ear plugs, batteries, & cheap lumber

Would tiling over an efflorescence area be problematic ? [ no idea - i'm not a tile guy,,, when you find 1, ask him about the schluter system - maybe that would work ! ]

' each company I have dealt with (talked to 5) offered the option to do the exterior system, but it was 2.5x-3x the cost in average ' [ you're also learning how we make the payments on outrageously big boats ] here's what often happens - you're thrown a big price for the exterior [ positive side ] system,,, IF you pick it, we get bigger boats IF & when your heart rate returns to normal, we'll say ' here's an alternative system - inside, under the floor, & MUCH less expensive ! this sounds much better &, after a little negotiation, you buy & we head for the boatyard

good luck !
 
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Old 03-03-14, 05:45 AM
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Well you make the problem a little less depressing with your sense of humor lol. The company came over once again and put on this stuff CHS Waterbased 18%. It doesn't sit over top of the issue, but goes into the concrete. It looks like a shiny clear coat when it dries. The company said if this does not do the trick, the next thing is digging out the problem areas and laying more concrete down. They assured me that whatever happens, they will keep working on the issue until it is gone. I feel a little better about that.
 
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Old 03-03-14, 08:58 AM
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obviously you're a sick person, too !

good luck ! at least they're not throwing the ' dog ate my homework ' excuse @ you !
 
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Old 03-06-14, 03:20 PM
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Okay I am worried now. The sealer helped on the floor, but now in those areas right on the wall, new spots of efflorescence is appearing. Since it can't get out of the floor, it goes back out the wall?
 
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Old 03-07-14, 03:20 AM
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Also, I spend a lot of time in my basement and I never once heard my sump pumps actually run. One time I did manually turn them on to test them out (couple months ago) and it did turn on with my power.

Since I do have a leak, in my wall going into my basement, shouldn't it run? Maybe the drain is too level or the water isn't reaching the drain at all?
 
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Old 03-07-14, 05:53 AM
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Sometimes water management is the only cost effective solution but that is typically when exterior topography makes excavation impractical or prohibitively expensive. When I had a minor leak around my water main I was quoted between 8 and 900 to excavate 7 Feet down by hand under my porch crawl space and do 3 redundant layers of water proofing. Add in re routing my sump pump discharge and extending my downspouts and no more water problem. I think in some, but not all cases, exterior excavation is actually cheaper than hacking away at a basement floor but a lot of waterproofers don't like it because there is less margin in it than an elaborate drainage system.
 
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