Hi all,

Well, unfortunately with all the snow and then rain, I discovered a water leak in the garage coming from the roof. Looking at the first picture, it seems to have started at this position - and there doesn't appear to be any water signs looking up to the peak of the roof. I'm thinking of taking the water hose out when it warms up and run it on the roof/against the house at around this area - to see if it leaks. Or does anyone have other recommendations on how to best find out where the leak is?

What is the best way to seal it once I find out "roughly" where the leak starts?

 

Don't know where you live or if you have snow but it could be an ice dam. Judging by the shape the plywood is in, it isn't limited to just the wall area. But at the wall, (assuming there is a gable end wall abutting this roof) each course of shingles should be separated by individual pieces of step flashing.

 

I'm in Toronto, so we've had quite a lot of snow and rain. I was really hoping I could find the leak without removing any shingles, and try to find out where along the wall/step flashing it starts - but I guess not.

Is there a possibility of removing only having to remove several shingles, and not the entire side of the roof? Or if removing any shingles, it's best to replace the entire roof side to the top. My shingles are around 11 years old, and in pretty good condition, so I'm hoping to not have to replace the entire side.

Thanks again.
Rob

 

Well, if it's an ice dam it will only leak in the winter... never when the roof is free of ice and when it just rains. That should help you figure out if it's a 12 month a year leak or just a wintertime leak. Does it leak in the summer?

If not, it is an ice dam and if you want to fix it once and for all, all the shingles need to come off. Ice and water shield gets applied to the first 6 feet along the eves and the first 3 feet along any wall and up any valley. It's important for the shingles to come off and start over so that everything can be adhered to a clean roof and lapped properly.

Someone else recently was lamenting his leaking roof problems from 3 years ago when he tried to only do it halfway. I'm sure his roof is leaking from where he stopped and started.

Can't say much more than that without photos of the roof, but I doubt this is a simple patch job. The way water is running in the first joint of your plywood, 4 feet from the fascia screams ice dam to me.

 

I also agree, the plywood damage is very likely due to ice dam - it's looked like this for quite some time.

For the side wall leak, I do feel this is related to rain only, and when the rain is blowing hard from the east. I know it sounds weird, but I have seen a few cases when raining hard from the east - and blowing - I've seen dampness on the cinder blocks like the image. I'm really thinking it's an issue with the step flashing, but again, not sure how to properly test it. I guess if I bring a hose and just spray against the siding around that area, I'll know. But if I do find it to leak, what is the likely fix going to be, i.e. will I likely still have to tear up the shingles, or just caulk around that area?

Apologies for all the confusion above.

 

A hose isn't usually a good way to find a roof leak. It would find a bullet hole that goes straight through the roof and decking... that's about it. Leaks run some distance under the shingles before they show up. And by the time you get water to drip through, you have usually wet the entire roof which tells you nothing. So the hose really doesn't help.

Caulk is almost never a solution to any leak. I don't know what kind of siding you have (that and a photo might help) but that could be part of it. If you have step flashing you should be able to see the individual pieces between the shingles and the siding. (there is usually about a 1" gap where you can see it).

If all you see in that gap is a long solid flashing that is 8 or 10 feet long, well that means you don't have step flashing. They used a L-flashing which is just one long continuous flashing. In that case, roof tar would be a temporary solution. L-flashing is the worst way to flash a wall because it leaks so easily. I would recommend ice and water shield and new step flashing.

 

I had that sort of problem years ago in a previous house. It turned out either the previous home owner or roofer used a non-galvanized nail, that rusted and allowed water to seep in.

The shingles will need to come off and the affected plywood will have to be replaced.

You may want to check the underside of the roof for any other water seepage.

 

Repairing the roof and adding ice shield is good but you need to stop the ice dams as well. If they persist then you may find a new problem further up the roof. I wonder if an uninsulated roof isn’t asking for ice dams. Heat in the garage rises and melts snow on the roof. Then cools and freezes. Repeat a few days and see ice dams form. Insulate and or ventilate the roof. Even in a garage.

 

Thanks all - I appreciate everyone's feedback!

I do think there are several issues - and absolutely ice dams are likely an issue. However, surrounding the water leak on the wall, this has occurred even in the summer. For this case, it was a hard blowing rainy day, and I did see water slightly dripping from the 2x4s that are above the main leak location on the wall. I've seen slight leaking a few times in the summer, but rarely, and when I have seen it has only occurred (Ithat I've seen) when the rain is driving from the east. That's why I'm thinking the leak is at the wall - probably due to the step flashing, or maybe even in the siding - which was mentioned by XSleeper. I'm going to wait until it warms up a bit and will take a few more pictures on the roof, so everyone can see the existing flashing that's installed.

To make this even more interesting, during a really windy snowstorm, I also noticed snow was entering the garage through the roof vent - causing snow to drift inside. Man.... too many issues

Rob

 

We'll keep an eye out for the photos. We all hope it warms up soon. This has been a horribly long, cold winter.

 

You should resolve the ice dams as they will eventually cause problems.

 

Hi all,

Just a quick update on this - with additional pictures from the roof side. Well, I had someone come take a look and he wasn't able to see any obvious issues with the step flashing or shingles, so he basically said the only thing he would do is rip up the shingles on that side and look for possible leak issues - and then re-shingle everything. I may have to go this approach, but would still like to see if I can find and fix the leak.

This is the roof side where the leak pictures in the garage occur. The leak could start at the very top peak and run down,or it could start right in the middle, very hard to say. A few things:

1. At the peak, I can see that the "gutter" is not exactly connected to the gutter running down the entire side. Could this be an issue, or even if the water ran under the gutter it would still be fine due to the step flashing? Sorry if I'm not explaining this well. The pictures below show the peak - as well as where the gutter are disconnected.

2. I noticed there are major gaps between the shingles and the gutter, again, I guess this is fine and normal for water to run underneath, and the step flashing would prevent the water from penetrating the siding wall?

3. I'm going to run a water leak on the roof tomorrow - and start in the middle. Without the water leak test, what is the better way to test to find out where the leak starts. It was mentioned above that wetting the roof would be hard to really know which area of the roof the leak starts. How would you go about finding where the leak starts?

4. Lastly, the roof doesn't leak during every rain session, and it seems really relevant when the rain is driving against the siding. There are no obvious signs of issues on the siding either, so I'm pretty sure it's when the rain runs down the siding - and where the gutter should run the rain to the eavesdrop... man...

Pictures coming shortly

 

The first picture is at the peak of the roof - this is where the gutters are not connected, and water at this point could run under the gutter - again - could be normal?

 

This is the side of the leak. I would say a 1/4 way from the bottom would be where the leak is shown from within the garage - in first post.

 

In the image below, what is the long "gutter" piece that runs from the top down to the eavesdrop called? If water runs under it, I assume that's normal and the step flashing under the shingles should ensure the water doesn't penetrate the wall?

Sorry if these are obvious questions.

 

It's j channel.

What I would assume, just from your pics, I would say that the roofers can't do a very good job of flashing the roof without taking the siding off. And judging from the pics, it's aluminum or aluminum clad siding, which doesn't come off very easily. And that is likely the root of the problem.

Did you put the roof tar along the edge? If the roofers did it that's a bad sign.

There "should be" step flashing under there, but how many times it's been roofed, reroofed, and reused, it might not be in very good shape, or missing or torn or who knows. That's about all I can say, a lot depends what you find when you tear into it.

Leaks can also come from the window perimeter, siding butt joints and any joints in the j channel.

 

Thanks XSleeper - appreciate all your help here. From the sounds of it, I'll have to have it torn into to really get to the bottom of the leak. Seems just from the surface view, as well as the difficult getting into to really inspect the step flashing, it can only be done by fully removing the shingles - and now as you pointed - I should make sure they remove the siding for proper re-installation. Before I do this, I may still perform several water tests, just to see when/where the leak starts to surface. I will spray first ONLY along where the wall/roof start, to remove the possibility the leak occurs when the water hits the siding above - and around the windows perimeter. I'll start 1/4 way up first and then make my way up to the peak - spraying for a good 10 minutes.

Again, the leak doesn't happen during every rain session, and really only when it drives against the side of the house.

I'll update the thread with my water tests over the weekend.

Thanks again,
Rob

 

I'm wondering if you found and fixed the problem.

I have EXACTLY the same issue in EXACTLY the same place. When it rains straight down, there is no problem. When it rains against the side of the house, water comes through (sometimes pours through) an opening in the insulation where electrical comes through.

The roof is two years old and done by a company with a good local reputation, although they were subs to the guy I hired.

The roofer (general contractor) came out and inspected but could not find a problem. He put down a bead of caulk against the roof and the J channel. A few days later we had a heavy (straight downpour) rain and there was no leak. A few days after that we had about 0.10 of rain but it was wind-blown against the side of the house. This time it leaked again.

I tried using a hose this morning against the J channel and against the siding but no leak. I think the contractor really isn't convinced it's a roofing problem, or at least not one that the's going to rip up the roof to find.

I'm trying to find a way to reproduce the problem so it can be fixed.