commercial grade: pad or no pad? zip or no-zip?


  #1  
Old 10-15-02, 05:53 AM
oz-zie757
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Question commercial grade: pad or no pad? zip or no-zip?

Question 1: Calling for clarification regarding opposing information received from two salespersons from two area Home Depots regarding pad/no pad on commercial carpet: One recommended an upgrade pad, the other said absolutely not, substantiating that the backing on those carpets intended for glue-down installation will break down more quickly due to the surface stretching that foot traffic over the presence of ANY pad would allow. This is 100% nylon carpet for residential rec-room installation atop a concrete basement floor.

Question 2: One option is to spend a bit more and go for a no-zip type. Is it worth it? The commercial carpet at which I’m looking is a very short loop, which seems inherently resistant to zipping. . .except that I also have 2 small dogs that like to tear off after tossed balls. Better safe than sorry, or save my money?

Thanks for all the advice from previous posts--great stuff.

Oz-zie
 
  #2  
Old 10-15-02, 09:21 PM
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>>>>>the other said
absolutely not, substantiating that the backing on those
carpets intended for glue-down installation will break
down more quickly due to the surface stretching that
foot traffic over the presence of ANY pad would allow.
 
  #3  
Old 10-15-02, 10:38 PM
oz-zie757
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No, not at the seams—within the body of the carpet. Kraus is a line of carpets brought to my attention at a flooring retailer that specifies its product as a no-zip carpet. It was explained to me by the saleperson in terms of a loop of berber in his carpet getting pulled, or “zipped,” for a length of 2 feet by his horse of a dog. Searching the net for another example, I encountered Autex Carpets touting the same feature.
 
  #4  
Old 10-17-02, 10:48 AM
Tuberocity
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Being a previous Home Depot employee, and having been laid off by said store, I have knowledge of how they decide on what companies to send their installs to. I have no agenda as I am not particularly inthused with them at the moment. Home Depot outsources their installs to specific companies based upon where the particular store is. They do not farm out installs to the cheapest bidder as some stores currently do, mostly mom and pop type sores. In any install in any store there are good & bad installers. I will agree that I had more problems with my installs/sales going awry when I worked at the Depot. They are so large, and sell so much flooring that you cannot possibly expect that all jobs will be placed with excellent installers. That said, if you decide to go with the Depot, you will not be disappointed! The larger the company the better your chance for satisfaction should something go wrong with the install, or product itself. The mills only pay a certain amount for reinstalling defective carpet. Assuming the carpet is defective the mills will replace the carpet at no cost to the dealer, but will only allow $3.50 or so a yard for reinstall.
I'm not sure what Home Depot pays their installers, (very secretive on these subjects)
so I will use Sears as an example. Sears payed install companies $4.75 a yard so you can see this is allready a loss for Sears even though the problem is laid at the mills feet. Sears is allready out $1.25 yard. This doesn't figure in the fact the customer may change his mind at this point and go with a different carpet requring different pad. This could eat up another $4-$6 a yard of Sears profit. Mom and pop stores are more difficult to get satisfaction if something goes wrong. The larger stores have the clout, and cash to eat jobs in their entirety, and I have seen them do so on numerous occations. A mom and pop is not going to let you change carpet as the pad cost would eat all their profit, unless you wanted to pay for the pad again, and trash the pad you allready paid for. There are many advantages, that far outway the possible installation problems, to shop at the larger home stores. Home Depot inparticular! They will bend over backward to satisfy any customer. Yes, as in the previous post you may get some bad installers, and probably more often than with a smaller store, but you have the security of knowing all will be taken care of in the end, and not at your cost. There are very reliable smaller stores in your town, just ask around for references from freinds, but they will tend to be as expensive, and usualy more expensive than the home centers simply because they are reliable, and cannot afford to eat jobs, so charge a tad more to make up for jobs they know will inevitably go bad. Think logicaly about this, it's all economics. Who is more likely to eat a job for a dissatisfied customer? The home centers also have the buying power to purchase flooring far cheaper than smaller stores thus allowing a larger profit margin enabling the store to simply say we are sorry, and your job is on the house. This is an extreme situation when multiple factors have upset the customer so bad that nothing will satisfy them accept total reimbursment, and rightfully so.
On to your question aboy style of carpet suitable for your family room. No installer working for home depot would install a carpet designed for glue down as a stretch in! You may buy it, but when the install company or installer sees what the products are, you would be getting a call stateing the combination is unsuitable, and cannot be installed. I have seen this happen.
Happened to me when I first started at the Depot. Customer bought off the in store rolls, and I wasn't aware that it was a gluedown carpet only. I assumed all was stretch in carpet. Cheap lesson, as the installer caught it when I went to cut the peice off the roll. The backings look very simular, but are not suitable for stretching in, they will fall apart. A low level, extremely tight looped commercial carpet should suit you fine. I am worried about the dogs playing Nascar on the floor as this can cause possible snags. If you keep their nails cut, this will be less of a problem. FIY, any loop carpet is not suitable for cats with claws, as they will tear it up quick. Another solution which I think you haveallready found is the low level texured commercial carpet.
This and the previous carpet you metioned will last a lifetime, and the pad the previous poster recomended I would agree with. There is another choice, Home Depot has urethane 3/8 pad that has to be 10lb with a coating on both sides to prevent spills from seaping down into the carpet. Will the dogs be having accidents on the carpet? This will change the whole picture. Look in this forum under a pet proof carpet thread for a description I posted about the different fibers available in carpet. There is one I forgot to mention, and that is solution died Nylon which will be the most stain resistant except for Olefin. You will often find this in low level loop or texured Commercial carpets, and you may allready be considering this as you description implies. Take care Tom
 
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Old 10-17-02, 06:03 PM
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>>>>>Home Depot outsources their
installs to specific companies based upon where the
particular store is. They do not farm out installs to the
cheapest bidder as some stores currently do, mostly mom
and pop type sores.>>>>Assuming the carpet is
defective the mills will replace the carpet at no cost to
the dealer, but will only allow $3.50 or so a yard for
reinstall.
I'm not sure what Home Depot pays their installers, (very
secretive on these subjects) >>>Sears payed install
companies $4.75 a yard so you can see this is allready a
loss for Sears even though the problem is laid at the mills
feet. Sears is allready out $1.25 yard>>>>Home Depot inparticular! They will bend
over backward to satisfy any customer.>>>>There are very reliable
smaller stores in your town, just ask around for
references from freinds, but they will tend to be as
expensive, and usualy more expensive than the home
centers simply because they are reliable, and cannot
afford to eat jobs, so charge a tad more to make up for
jobs they know will inevitably go bad>>>>On to your question aboy style of carpet suitable for your
family room. No installer working for home depot would
install a carpet designed for glue down as a stretch in!
 
  #6  
Old 10-18-02, 08:34 AM
Tuberocity
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Hi CarpetsDoneWright, Yes, I am refering to Home Depots in California where customers may be a tad more demanding. I found while wroking at Sears, managment would bend over backward to sitisfy all customers at allmost any cost. I was also personaly given alot of leeway in making my own decisions regarding replacment etc. Sears called it empowerement! This was one of my main selling points to close a sale. If this were not the case, I could not have sold carpet for Sears. My integrity would have gone out the window because carpet was $5-10 a yard cheaper at the Depot.
As you said you get what you pay for. I was lucky at sears, as I had a close relationship with the install company. If I found a particular job was going to be very tight(I allways measured as tight as I could becasue of the higher prices) or I forgot a cut peice or closte etc. I would call Jim, and let him know to send one of the more experienced installers to make the job work without compromising the integrity of my seam placment. Also, as you are aware, some cutomers are very particular, and you know this when you hear the first sentance out of their mouth. I would call again, and request the same thing, an excellent installer do this job. Little did I know That Home Depot here in California was actualy even better at customer satisfaction. They would actualy eat jobs in their entirety leaving the flooring in place for free! Sears would eat jobs, but they would pull them up. Never did understand this thinking as pullups cost the company more money, but hey who am I to argue, The carpet on my second floor was free, as is the carpet I have downstairs waiting to be installed, a high grade Millikin pattern carpet that goes well with my 90 year old house, all pullups. The pattern carpet was from a job where an elderly lady came in crying stating the pattern made her dizzy, and she was falling down, sears replaced it no question!
I cannot make a rebuttal for any stores outside of California, but assume that if stisfaction is important in one state, then it should be in all states, as corporate makes the policies, and are usualy across the board. BUT!!! You know what they say about assuming!!!! Here in California they have used in store measurers with good training and knowledge up untill a year ago. Now they are outsourcing the measures which creates a conflict of interest for the customer as the measurer is responsible for any shortages therfore all measurers arbitrarily add in extra yardage as a padding just in case! This is why I was laid off, no need to pay me 40K for my experience, as they no longer needed me to measure. I see your point now, things may have gotten worse since my employment at the Depot a year ago. Sears has gone out of the flooring business, possibly because they could no longer offer the satisfaction guaranteed policy at a reasonable price so decided not to offer flooring at all. If you did not like the color you chose, you were guaranteed satisfaction, replacment, pullup, refund etc. I guess all this boils down to search around for a store you feel you can trust as anything can happen, anywhere! When a 10K floor is at stake, you certainly don't want a mess the store is not willing to clean up!
If you do decide because of price to go with a major home center, and have problems, call corporate! Many Sears customers did this, and corporate is very strict, at least as far as Sears was concerned. If a problem was not taken care of to the customers satisfaction within a certain timeframe, they would credit their account with the full purchase price. The store itself would eat this cost on their respective yearly inventory, causing bad blood between the store manager and ourselves. I am not sure how the Depot handles all this, or if it works the same way, but corporate is your best bet after in store satisfaction has failed. Tom
 
  #7  
Old 10-18-02, 08:43 PM
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And you wonder why Sears is out of the flooring business??

Because they had an installation crisis. They couldn't afford nor could they find enough quality installation contractors. They lost there *** doing replacements for free!!! Home Depot is headed that direction too.
 
  #8  
Old 10-19-02, 07:21 AM
Tuberocity
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I think you may have something there CarpetsDoneWright. I went to the Depot the other day looking for that new carpet with the vinyl/rubber backing I refered to in another post, it was gone. In fact half their selection was gone! I don't see a solution to the install crisis either. The amount of flooring jobs being sold in all flooring stores far exceeds the ability of experienced floor installers therefore large amounts of installs have to be placed with less experienced installers. A vicious circle to say the least! Sears shouldn't have gone out of the flooring business, I think the dept as a whole was missmanaged by corporate yahoos who didn't have a clue how to opperate the dept. They made alot of bad decisions, and it finaly came full circle, and was easier to close the dept than to revamp. Sears should have looked to their sales people for advice. Not all associates were the best, but quite a few of us had good ideas, and the knowledge to bring them to fruition. Sears higher prices should have allowed them to continue to offer first rate service, but alas it wasn't to be. Tom
 
 

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