Bad carpet seam


  #1  
Old 01-09-05, 09:43 AM
Domf
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Bad carpet seam

I recently had a Berber carpet with a pattern installed in a large 24x24 foot room. After the installation the seam was very noticeable across the entire seam. I had the retailer send the installers back out to fix the seam. They reseamed the carpet with a wider seam tape. Now the seam is hidden in some spots but still very noticeable in others. They also used what they called a seam sealer on it both times that they did the seaming. I had an independent contractor that just does carpet installation come out and look at it. He said the pattern and the cut looks good to him, but it appeared that there was seam sealer on the fabric of the carpet which may be causing the seam to be more noticeable. Is the seam sealer to be applied to the carpet backing only? Also the carpet retailer told me to give it time and the seam will look better after it "blossoms". Have you ever heard of this?
Thanks for any advice you may have,
Dom
 
  #2  
Old 01-09-05, 11:53 AM
floorman
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That has got to be one of the biggest sayings to get you out the door that i have ever heard.No amount of "blossoming"is going to hide a bad seam job.One of the biggest problems with berber especially a pattern berber is the seams.If they started with a 3"seam tape at the start then they screwed up from the start.I'm sure someone will chime in here too but i was always taught to use 6" tape on the berber's,on length seams as well as the cross seams.
Look at the pattern of the carpet,you will have to get close to it and you wil have to count threads and all that to find out where the pattern stops and starts,are ther diamonds in it?You can look at an angle also to help you determine if the pattern is off as well.Sometimes when cutting a seam in any patterned carpet if are off just one row then the pattern will "flash" and you will pick it up at certain angles and others you won't.
It could also be that one of the drops was rolled tighter than the other and the pattern ran off that way one not being as relaxed as the other and it was not either acclimated right or not streched a little to compensate for the difference or just didn't care,whatever it was it needed to be addressed before they seamed it up.
Maybe some berber's require a latex seam sealer but i am not aware of it maybe perry knows i'm sure he'll be around shortly I.M.O. if there is any type of sealer or any kind of glue from the tape or latex on the seam then they need to get back out there and redo the seam one more time,if there is enough carpet .
Does this seam run across a window?Like a wall of windows?Sometimes of the seam is running the length of the windows you will not be able to do anything to hide the seam.The way the fibers distort when heating them up and the sun coming through the window will kill even the best seam job,just know way to hide it.
The best advice a can give you is to look it over and consider the whole job.Was everything up to par to this point?did you have the whole house done or just one area?You will be able to tell shoddy workmanship from the start.If you think there is something more you can do then do it.There should be nothing visible on the top of the carpet as far as the seam goes,maybe a thin line that is hard or a little bit of a hump from the seam and the tape but that is it.
Hope this helped ya
 
  #3  
Old 01-09-05, 03:36 PM
Domf
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bad seam

The gentelman that I had come look at my carpet got down with a blunt pen and was counting the threads, he said the pattern count was correct. The seam is in between and perpendicular to two windows. I had carpet installed in this room, a bedroom and a upstairs hallway, overall the work was fine except for this seam. I believe they just made a mistake when doing the seam work (this is the only seam). Also, did you say that they should not have used seam sealer at all on a Berber carpet?
Thanks,
Dom
 
  #4  
Old 01-09-05, 04:09 PM
D
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Six inch tape was not the savoir, here. Six inch seam tape is the all time greatest marketing lie ever perpetrated by any floorining entity.

ALL carpet seams are to be sealed. Either by liquid latex or thermo seal.

You said the seam was perpendicular to the windows. Does the natural light strike the lenth of the seam, or cross it? Proper layout by the estimator is key to a successful installation.
 
  #5  
Old 01-09-05, 04:29 PM
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Seam sealer is to be applied to the cut edge of the carpet backing, to encapsulate the primary and secondary backings, along that cut.
It is a no-no to get seam sealer or thermo plastic on the face yarns of the carpet.


I have only used 6" tape on a handful of jobs. I didn't find it helped. Just made a wider profile highlight, and the seam edges still peaked. Since thermosealing the carpet edges came out as being acceptable, I have not had one peaking berber seam.
 
  #6  
Old 01-10-05, 02:25 PM
Domf
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The light would strike the length of the seam. My house is a split level, and this carpet is in the lowest level. The windows face the north and do not get direct sunlight in them. The person in the store that sold me the carpet also came to my house and did the measuring, so he was aware of the carpet I picked, the size of the room and the lighting in this room. At no time did he tell me I would have a problem seeing a seam in this carpet or that it should be installed in a particular direction to make the seam less noticeable, until the job was complete and I wasn't satisfied. They are willing to replace my carpet for me, but they have suggested that I pick a different style than Berber, with a higher pile to hide the seam. I am looking for information here because I would like the carpet replaced with the same style, but I want to be sure that it is possible to have this installed so I will not be able to see the seam (or at least not very easy).
Thanks again,
Dom
 
  #7  
Old 01-10-05, 03:37 PM
D
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If they are willing to replace it with a different carpet that is easier for them to work with, they are admitting a lack of skill with the berber you selected. Will they let you have the same carpet installed by a different installer? Would they replace the carpet and let you choose the installer? These are questions that need to be addressed by the carpet retailer. There are many underqualified installers out there and you may have encountered one of them. If you chose the carpet you want, and paid for installation, their goal should be to satisfy you.

What is your location? there are alot of qualified installers out there. We will try to help you out of ths mess.
 
  #8  
Old 01-10-05, 06:21 PM
Domf
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I am not sure if they are willing to let me pick the installer. I am located in Lockport NY, (14094) about 20 miles east of Niagara Falls. But please give me the names of some installers in case they let me choose.
Thanks,
Dom
 
  #9  
Old 01-10-05, 09:46 PM
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Here are some of the installers in your area that are more then qualified to give you customer satisfaction.


MASTER
Mike Eldred, Sr.
M & M Premier Flooring, Inc
Albion, NY 14411
(585) 589-5608

MASTER
Mike Lazore
Certified Carpet Corrections
Brockport, NY 14420
(585) 637-0895

MASTER
Gary Trescott
Trescott Installations
Scottsville, NY 14546
(716) 889-8517

MASTER
Ronald Fackelman
Rochester Linoleum & Carpet One
Rochester, NY 14626
(585) 314-3282


C I-II
Casey Eldred, Jr.
Sky Installations
Brockport, NY 14420
(585) 637-2987

C I-II
Frank Franzese
Frank Franzese
Brockport, NY 14420
(585) 637-5883

C I-II
Ike McLean
Rochester Flooring Resource
Mount Morris, NY 14510
(585) 658-9744
 
  #10  
Old 01-11-05, 04:38 PM
D
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The installers that CDW posted are all CFI certified and had to meet certain standards to meet their certification levels. They should be more than capable to install your carpet.
 
  #11  
Old 01-12-05, 03:01 PM
Domf
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Thanks for the advice and the names of the installers, but my carpet retailer will not go that route. After talking to him yesterday about the advice I got from you guys, Iím not sure if he even wants to replace my carpet. They are coming to look at it again next week, but said they cannot redo this seam a third time. They will decide then if they are going to replace it, or charge me for half the price of the new carpet. (ya right). Also they said when they did reseam my carpet that they didn't restretch it. They just cut open the seam, removed the old seam tape, put in new wider tape, and seamed it. Does that sound right? It doesn't seem loose, but I thought it would have been stretched again after seaming.
Thanks again for your advice,
Dom
 
  #12  
Old 01-12-05, 09:32 PM
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If you cut one of my seams open it will part like the Red Sea whem Moses approched.

No wonder the seam looks like doo-doo. Some real pros you have there.

Call the CFI guy of your choice and then hand the retailer the bill!
 
  #13  
Old 04-11-08, 04:11 PM
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Hi My Suggestion Would Be To See If You Can Get A Carpet Rep To Take A Look At The Job,maybe Side Match Problem,they Have To Guarantee There Work.
 
  #14  
Old 04-11-08, 04:39 PM
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Hi Carpet Man and Welcome to the DIY Forums!

It's great that you jumped right in with an answer, and we're always happy to have qualified responders. You may notice, though, that each post is dated. It's in the upper left corner.

I think they've probably resolved that problem by now

Connie
 
  #15  
Old 05-15-08, 03:52 PM
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Bad Berber seam

I was in the carpet business for 13 years when my body was young enough to endure it. Anyway, sometimes "visible seams" are a fact of life. YES a qualified mechanic (not just a bunch of kids with a box full of tools) is a must! Strike that... I remember "butchers" that were older than I was at the time! My old partner was real good with berbers. There is a bit of an art to it. The fact that you said that they came in, opened the seam, remade it and did not restrech tells me that you had "meat cutters" not carpet mechanics! I will say in all fairness that some carpet is more prone to visible seams than others. You have to realize that the heat seam tape and also the underlayment can cause a natural peaking
effect where the seam lies making it more visible. One tip for you... Sales people (unless they are x-installers) know squat about carpet properties, how they seam or install. Most of them are glorified shoe salesmen! Good luck!
 
  #16  
Old 08-20-08, 09:13 AM
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carpet installation

I worked with a guy as an installer for 7 years. As far as seams, there is a definite art to it. And no way is every single seam going to be invisible. Some carpets (berber especially) can be difficult to make look nice no matter what you do.

Pattern matches are even harder, but they can be done. We always used 3 inch seam tape whether plush or berber and never had a problem. Reason being, we let the seam cool down long enough before putting the power stretcher to it.

Good training, a little common sense, and taking your time with the job goes a long way.

I never went to school or became certified when I installed, I learned hands on one step at a time.

And to the person who said that most salespeople don't know squat about installation, you are absolutely correct. They Don't. They'll say anything to make a sale. I've been through it.

When my knees couldn't take anymore, I quit doing it. I don't know how some guys keep this up for 20 years.

Customers, not to be rude, but please, when an installer shows up to do the job, don't throw questions at them like; "Is this good carpet?" "Is this good pad?" "How do I clean it?" etc.

If your salesperson was competent in the least, they should have already explained everything to you.

Anyway, I hope all of you customers out there have a good experience with your future installation if any. Kudos to you installers who do a good job and endure the pain of it all.
 

Last edited by actorstuntguy; 08-20-08 at 09:59 AM.
  #17  
Old 03-09-09, 11:06 PM
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Here's a link to a page with some great photos showing pretty much every no-no regarding carpet seams:

Lowe's Carpet Installation Issues

Everything from huge gaps to getting adhesive on the yarn to tucked-under yarns.

If your seams look horrible, especially on plush pile, these pictures might help you diagnose your problem.
 
  #18  
Old 03-13-09, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gallsbrooks View Post
Here's a link to a page with some great photos showing pretty much every no-no regarding carpet seams:

Lowe's Carpet Installation Issues

Everything from huge gaps to getting adhesive on the yarn to tucked-under yarns.

If your seams look horrible, especially on plush pile, these pictures might help you diagnose your problem.



I see you met the carpet butcher. They used him, because he is the lowest cost guy around.
 
 

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