Laminate over concrete

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  #1  
Old 03-15-03, 04:51 AM
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Laminate over concrete

If your laying a laminate floor over a concrete slab which was previously covered with carpet does the slab need to be sealed to reduce dust..
Thanks

Anthony
 
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  #2  
Old 03-20-03, 08:29 PM
AzFred
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You should lay a 6mil polyethylene sheet that will keep the dust down but more importantly isolate the flooring from the moisture in the concrete. On top of the "poly" goes a foam and then the flooring.
 
  #3  
Old 03-23-03, 03:23 PM
rgillespie
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Yes, a moisture barrier is needed. The place you bought, or are buying the flooring from will be able to supply you with it. Some brands have a "two in one" foam underlayment that has the plastic moisture barrier glued to the bottom of the foam...... very convenient. If you install the seperate plastic sheeting, it needs to be overlapped about eight inches at the seams.

Robert
 
  #4  
Old 03-26-03, 08:56 AM
camachinist
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hehe....I couldn't believe the amount of dirt and dust that was under our carpet. I'm sweeping and vacuuming as I prepare the floor.

I'm in the midst of a Wilsonart Estate+ install and was advised by the dealer to use the factory-recommended 2 in 1 foam/vapor barrier. The product I received is made by Sealed Air and is about .080" thick and comes in a 5'x100' roll. There is a tape-release adhesive on the vapor barrier flange.

The recommended concrete install is to butt edges and use polyethylene tape in addition to the factory adhesive.

I also have set up a 3 x 3 taped polyethylene panel on a random part of the floor to detect excessive moisture transmission through the concrete, which was formerly covered by carpet. After 24 hours, no changes; keeping fingers crossed *G*

I'll be stopping in to offer and receive advice as we proceed through this project, which is about 350 sq ft.

At this point, my only questions pertain to the use of a self-leveling cement to mitigate unflat areas of the floor, which are at or slightly in excess of the .187" per 10' limit proscribed by Wilsonart. The Estate+ product is very stiff due to the thicker laminate and I want to make sure I get this right....

Pat
 
  #5  
Old 04-05-03, 06:09 PM
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Camachinist, How are you doing with the floor project...I am actually going be starting with Wilsonart Classic over concrete, I too have had carpet down and I still have to take up the linoleum in the kitchen. the whole job is approx 375 sq ft. Keep me posted on the progress.

Tearflop
 
  #6  
Old 04-05-03, 06:37 PM
camachinist
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Floor went down in about 8 hours over 2 days, including installing the foam. Overall, a fairly easy install, save for the complex cuts around our angled fireplace hearth and wall at one end of the room. Rough room measured 350 sq. ft., including space occupied by fireplace; we ordered 360 sq. ft. and had about 6 planks left over plus some scraps. If you go 8-10% over, you won't cut it as close as we did.

Slab flatness was right at the limit (I used a 8' straightedge and 3/16" tool stock from the shop to measure) and we decided not to level the floor out as it would have entailed a fair amount of labor and pushed our schedule too much. After the install, I can tell where the low spots are (walking sounds are slightly different) but don't notice creaking or other noticeable noises. I doubt others will notice anything but I'm a machinist and work in thousandths of an inch so 3/16" is a huge tolerance for me .

Baseboards and half-round went in today (I assembled and my wife painted these earlier in the week); having a table saw, power miter box and air finish nailer sure speeded things up but it was still tedious getting tight tolerances (that machining thing again )

I found the factory endstops to have the incorrect tolerance for the thickness of the EstatePlus laminate (it's thicker than other laminates) so I ripped glue spacers for them (yet to be adhered) for the areas adjacent to the fireplace and in the doorways where the laminate will transition to the epoxy aggregate.

If you have any specific questions, post.
 
  #7  
Old 04-14-03, 02:25 PM
JohnRyan
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TearFlop
I just purchased laminate for an area almost as big as yours. I still need to pull up the carpet. I think I'm just going to leave the linoleum that's left on the floor in the kitchen.

Would you mind keeping us posted on your advancements? I would like to hear how your project is going.
 
  #8  
Old 04-14-03, 04:15 PM
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John , which laminate did you purchase.....Im thinking of the Wisonart classic...
When will you be starting your project.. I should be starting in about 3 week..... I will update as I go..
 
  #9  
Old 04-14-03, 04:35 PM
AzFred
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Drop in at my web site for some insight. No brands are mentioned but you will otherwise find some pretty good info. A link button is included with this reply and indicated with www on the button below.
 
  #10  
Old 04-15-03, 08:55 AM
JohnRyan
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TearFlop

TearFlop, I ended up getting a real bargain from Lumber Liquidators this past weekend. I believe the brand is DreamHouse laminate, the Just Clic It kind. It was super cheap and I believe it will serve my needs. I ripped up the carpet last night and removed the excess nails and junk. For the most part, the concrete looked in good condition. I hope to further prepare the floor, if necessary, and then proceed with the install. Very excited about it!
 
  #11  
Old 04-17-03, 10:25 AM
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Hi,

What made you decide on Wilsonart? I've been considering Wilsonart as well. Just curious as to some other viewpoints before I finalize my decision.

Thanks,
Shawn
 
  #12  
Old 04-17-03, 01:48 PM
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I looked at Mannington and alloc they both looked cheap looking...I was interested in BHK but couldnt find anyone that had samples in my area...Wilsonart is a rally good looking and durable product...they have been doing laminates (counter tops for years.....their joints are also very tight....as far as taking it apart , It may not be that simple. Im sure the uniclic symtems might me more forgiving...Hope that helps

Tearflop
 
  #13  
Old 04-17-03, 04:04 PM
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Thanks Tearflop. I didn't mean to get away from the subject of your post. But, its nice to get some other viewpoints from other consumers.

I just looked at Mannington and Alloc, as well, and thought the same thing. Though, I was also looking at this Columbia product which seemed to be pretty quality. But, I haven't heard much about it. So, I think the Wilsonart is the front runner for me.

Shawn
 
  #14  
Old 04-23-03, 09:21 AM
JSL1016
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Me too

I too will be installing a laminate floor in my basement in the coming weeks.

I have the vapor barrier and the foam underlayment. I already have a self-adhesive tile floor down that I am going to leave as is.

One question I have is how much space should I leave bewteen the edge of the floor and the wall? 1/4"? More?

Thanks.

I'll keep everyone posted about how difficult it was to install and how long it actually takes me.
 
  #15  
Old 04-23-03, 11:59 AM
AzFred
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Read and understand the installation instructions of the specific product that you will install! Follow the installation instructions completely and accurately to insure that you warrantee is valid. You will be installing in a less than ideal location that is high risk for moisture problems.
 
  #16  
Old 04-23-03, 12:19 PM
JSL1016
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Uh huh. tell me about it. I just paid 5K last fall to have a drainage system put in after I noticed a lot of water seeping in. Turns out my cinder blocks were full of water.

Not anymore though. Basement has been dry as a desert ever since, so I am not too worried about installing the laminate floor down there.

I'll check the instructions that come in the boxes to insure proper spacing between the floor and the wall.
 
  #17  
Old 04-23-03, 02:26 PM
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When your installing a glueless floor and you start on one side of the room and when you come to the other side how do you get the last piece in to go under the door molding without taking it off.

Mine are cut high and I can definetely slide the one side under but the other side confuses me ...any info on this


Tearflop
 
  #18  
Old 04-23-03, 09:00 PM
Krstofer
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I have a question. I have a concrete slab but there is tile over that, do I need the moisture barrier or can I skip it?
 
  #19  
Old 04-23-03, 10:43 PM
AzFred
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You need a moisture test and a barrier over the tile, as you would over concrete. Affix a piece of 6mil polyethylene to the floor that is about 30" X 30" using duct tape. After 24 to 36 hours examine the poly for droplets of moisture. If you find droplets get a professional test and opinion about your specific floor.
 
  #20  
Old 04-26-03, 02:31 PM
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I just recently got to look at the perspective style by Quick Step.....it's the plank look with beveled edging...I really like it...now I have to choose between this and wilsonart.
 
  #21  
Old 04-30-03, 12:55 PM
sunshine
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Question laminate over concrete

Do you have to put the vapour barrier over the concrete or is the foam suffiient. I have been told by that we don't require the vapour barrier as the laminate is guaranteed for life from moisture. The laminate is the kind that you would put in a bathroom. We have a four level side split house and the laminate would be going on the third level. We always had carpet there and never experienced any kind of moisture problem.

What are you experiences with foam underlay versus rubber underlay?
 
  #22  
Old 04-30-03, 03:31 PM
camachinist
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If the concrete is in contact with the ground, my understanding is that a vapor barrier is required, at least with Wilsonart, for the warranty to apply. Wilsonart offers a 2 in 1 underlayment, which has foam and vapor barrier as one, for a modest price (128.00 for 500 sq feet is what we paid from our dealer). It came in a roll 5' wide x 100' long and had self-adhesive flanges. We also taped the seams with polyethylene tape on top after the installation was complete. This particular product is about .080" thick. Using this in conjunction with a straight foam product might quiet the floor a bit, if that is an issue.

BTW, as carpet/pad can breathe, minor moisture wicking through the slab can evaporate into the room. Laminate is relatively vapor-tight in its field. IMO, the only way to test a slab for moisture transmission is with a polyethylene capture sheet, taped securely at the edges. If signs of moisture are present after 24-48 hours, then a professional should be called in to evaluate the floor.

This is what we did prior to our installation. No moisture was present, even after 5 days. Lucky, I guess

Pat
 
  #23  
Old 05-04-03, 07:00 AM
AzFred
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The moisture warrantee requires a polyethylene sheet on a concrete subfloor. The polyethylene is Not required above grade on a wood sub floor by most manufacturers. I wouldn't use any laminate in a bathroom. The foam underlay is used for irregular flooring surfaces to help provide a flat surface. The sponge rubber underlay is for acoustical insulation, and poly for moisture isolation.
 
  #24  
Old 04-25-04, 08:49 AM
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Great info here.. Thanks.
I will be doing (or having this) done fairly soon, to 3 rooms plus hallways and small guest bath, so this info is a great help...as is most of the info on these boards.
TIA
Jatco
 
  #25  
Old 05-21-04, 01:36 PM
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Foyer Cement Slab and Laminate Questions

All the info I have read so far has been great. I have already done the mosture test and passed, I will be undercutting the closet and basement door jambs this weekend and removing the molding to prepare for installing the Shaw Laminate flooring I bought from HD. However I have 2 questions. The foyer is roughly 98 sq ft [14' x 7']. I did not reduce for the basement enterance or the stairs that come into this area. I bought 105 sq ft and feel that should be enough. My questions are: 1. I plan on running the flooring long ways from the front door down to the den 14'. This will leave end cuts up at the aluminum front door threshold. The HD guy sold me 1/4 round to cover the gap but it is just a little higher than the threshold in test fitting without the 3 in 1 padding so that won't work. I saw in the instruction that some of the Shaw floors came with finishing end pieces. Mine didn't . If I ripped a T molding down, could I use that to finish and cover this gap? And if so should I paint the cut edge that will fit against the aluminum threshold? Also since this is a cement floor how should I attach the track strips? The HD guy told me to glue it down with Liquid nails but being a foyer I am affraid of the traffic and glue strength. All thoughts and suggestions are appreciated for both issues.

Thanks and Regards,

Doug
 
  #26  
Old 05-22-04, 03:45 AM
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I have had to rip cut "T" moldings many, many times, to turn them into endcaps for door thresholds and around brick fireplace hearths.


Wilsonart has never given me or any of my clients that have purchased it, any problems what so ever. It is the top of the laminates IMHO.

Once clicked together, don't plan on taking it apart though!!!!


In the wonderful world of laminate flooring, the `ol saying... You get what you pay for, applies 10 fold.
 
  #27  
Old 05-25-04, 05:24 PM
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Track Strip

Thanks Perry, I will buy some "T" molding and rip it down to work as a finish strip. The only question I did not get an answer to was how do I attach the track strip to the cement floor. The HD guy said to use liquid nails. Should I drill the slab and put anchors in or is this over kill? It will be in the main entrance foyer with several rooms off of it so it will have a lot of traffic.

Thanks again,

Doug
 
  #28  
Old 05-26-04, 07:19 AM
BealeJon
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Liquid Nails

Doug,

I know contractors use the liquid nails like nobody's business when it comes to attaching things to concrete. With respect to its capabilities my in-laws ripped out carpet in their family room (concrete slab) and prepped it for ceramic tile. However, my mother-in-law changed her mind and had carpet put back in. The contractors came in and used liquid nails to put down the carpet tack-strips. Let it set overnight and were stretching heavy berber carpet on it the next day.

If you don't mind a little more work and time for piece of mind you could hammer drill and put some "TAPCON" blue screws in the bracket that holds T-molding down.

Hope it helps.
 
  #29  
Old 05-28-04, 01:27 AM
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I was considering what to do myself in this regard..especially around my slate hearth, which is cemented to the floor over the old ceramic tile. I dont think I want to risk using a 'hammer drill' next to the slate. I'll probably go with the Thompson's Construction Adhesive. I used that for my oak stair ends and caps. Thought that was wood on wood, this stuff is better than Liquid Nails imo... Adheres to just about everything...
.
correction: Franklin Construction Adhesive...
 

Last edited by jatco; 06-02-04 at 01:34 AM.
  #30  
Old 02-18-05, 12:44 PM
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prepping concrete for laminate

I am going to put laminate (probably WilsonArt Classic) in my basement. The current floor is painted concrete, however the paint is flaking up in a fine dust. Should I do anything to prep the concrete before I put down the vapor barrier and foam underlayment (probably Wilsonarts 2in1)??

Also, any recommendations for flooring (Wilsonart, Mannington, Pergo Signature, Alloc)

Thanks,

Mark
 
  #31  
Old 02-19-05, 06:38 AM
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Perform a moisture test on the concrete in your basement!!!

If the test comes back to be over 4.5 pounds per 1000 sq.ft. Stop!!!!!

Condensation on top of the moisture retarder is a high possibility, when concrete moisture vapor emissions are high, like a basement that is below grade. That is not a good thing!
 
  #32  
Old 03-21-05, 04:54 PM
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moisture test

I taped four seperate pieces of poly to my basement; one 3'x3' and three 1'x1' squares. After 72 hours, I checked two of them for moisture and both were dry. After a month (I was away) I checked the other two. The concrete was slightly damp under both pieces of poly, but there was no condensation on either side of the plastic. Within an hour, the floor was dry again.

I believe that this meets the moisture requirement, but thought I would check back before I install WilsonArt Classic. Should I go ahead and get a professional test, or am I okay?

Oh yeah, I am planning on putting down a 6 mil poly plus WilsonArts 2-n-1.

Thanks
 
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