Hardwood Installation
#1
Hardwood Installation
I will be installing 3/4 pre-finished Bruce hardwood for the first time (although I am rather handy, just have NO experience with flooring, other than decking).
Room is 13.5 X 14.5, initial thought was to run the planks long ways, but this turns out to be parrallell with the floor joists. My concern is that the floor joists are 24" OC, not 16". The kitchen (also 24"OC) actually flexes under my feet when standing between joists. Would it be more structurally sound to run flooring Perpendicular (across) floor joists? Sub-floor is tongue & groove, I believe 11/16.
Once carpet/padding is ripped out, I just lay down red rosin paper?? I understand this will help reduce floor squeaks. Does this just lay loose, or does it need to be adhered to subfloor?
What is the best type of nailer to rent? I do have a big compressor, but didn't know if a manual type nailer would be just as good.
Thanks!
Dave
Room is 13.5 X 14.5, initial thought was to run the planks long ways, but this turns out to be parrallell with the floor joists. My concern is that the floor joists are 24" OC, not 16". The kitchen (also 24"OC) actually flexes under my feet when standing between joists. Would it be more structurally sound to run flooring Perpendicular (across) floor joists? Sub-floor is tongue & groove, I believe 11/16.
Once carpet/padding is ripped out, I just lay down red rosin paper?? I understand this will help reduce floor squeaks. Does this just lay loose, or does it need to be adhered to subfloor?
What is the best type of nailer to rent? I do have a big compressor, but didn't know if a manual type nailer would be just as good.
Thanks!
Dave
#2
I'm a do-it-yourselfer also. A few weeks ago I started an identical project, but more rooms. My sub-floor is also on 24, but I have 3/4 OSB as the sub-floor decking.
Here is what I did...
First of all I planned to (and did) install the wood perpendicular to the floor joists. I had multiple recommendations to do this.
After the carpet was out I thoroughly cleaned out all the dust and junk from the edges and seams.
I used 2 1/2 inch screws to tighten the sub-floor down to the joists in areas that squeaked or had movement.
Where there were seams between sub-floor decking sheets I poured in corn-starch (baby powder) to help minimize squeaks in the sub-floor.
I then laid out rosin paper over the entire floor and stapled it down with a hand-stapler.
The rosin paper makes it a lot easier to slide the planks around as you are working on the install.
Then you square up your room using that geometry that you never thought you would need.
I rented a flooring cleat nailer. Mine dialed in at 85 psi for the best effect. The cleat nailer is pre-positioned at the correct angle for driving the nail through the tongue. Cleat nails give a better grip than finishing nails. It also helps as a tool to help push the plank seam in as tight as possible just before you pound the nail home. Getting use to the nailer was the trickiest part of the whole thing. Get the rental company to give you a good walk through on how to use it. It took me the better part of a day to do a 12 X 14 room.
Be aware that you can't use the nail gun as you get closer to a wall... there's not enough room for the cylinder and the arc of the hammer as you hit the cylinder to fire the nail. These have to be hand nailed.
Hope this helps.
NTAC
Here is what I did...
First of all I planned to (and did) install the wood perpendicular to the floor joists. I had multiple recommendations to do this.
After the carpet was out I thoroughly cleaned out all the dust and junk from the edges and seams.
I used 2 1/2 inch screws to tighten the sub-floor down to the joists in areas that squeaked or had movement.
Where there were seams between sub-floor decking sheets I poured in corn-starch (baby powder) to help minimize squeaks in the sub-floor.
I then laid out rosin paper over the entire floor and stapled it down with a hand-stapler.
The rosin paper makes it a lot easier to slide the planks around as you are working on the install.
Then you square up your room using that geometry that you never thought you would need.
I rented a flooring cleat nailer. Mine dialed in at 85 psi for the best effect. The cleat nailer is pre-positioned at the correct angle for driving the nail through the tongue. Cleat nails give a better grip than finishing nails. It also helps as a tool to help push the plank seam in as tight as possible just before you pound the nail home. Getting use to the nailer was the trickiest part of the whole thing. Get the rental company to give you a good walk through on how to use it. It took me the better part of a day to do a 12 X 14 room.
Be aware that you can't use the nail gun as you get closer to a wall... there's not enough room for the cylinder and the arc of the hammer as you hit the cylinder to fire the nail. These have to be hand nailed.
Hope this helps.
NTAC
#3
NTAC,
Huge help, thanks!! I have been reading that floor should run in direction that light shines in, but that would be parallel with joists. Wife said she wants floor to run the other way (shorter lenght of room, but ACROSS the floor joists) so that's what we will do.
Dave
Huge help, thanks!! I have been reading that floor should run in direction that light shines in, but that would be parallel with joists. Wife said she wants floor to run the other way (shorter lenght of room, but ACROSS the floor joists) so that's what we will do.
Dave
#4
Good luck... I've also heard that they should run parallel to the longest wall of the room, but the same person told me that perpendicular to the joist should be a higher priority. The light issue is a new one to me.
Don't forget to let your flooring acclimate to the room before installing.
NTAC.
Don't forget to let your flooring acclimate to the room before installing.
NTAC.
#5
Whoever started the light thing needs to learn allot more obout laying hardwood. Always go perpindicular to the joists. Especially with 24in on center joists. Another tip is rent the air nailer. Two reasons. 1. you won't get as tired. 2. you will have a much tighter floor using the air nailer.
Phil
Phil
#6
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"Whoever started the light thing needs to learn allot more obout laying hardwood"
Phil:
That started with real laminate floors. Installing perpendicular to the main light source shows the seams more. It was really bad with the glued laminate floors and their so called "proud edges" I never consider it with hardwoods.
Phil:
That started with real laminate floors. Installing perpendicular to the main light source shows the seams more. It was really bad with the glued laminate floors and their so called "proud edges" I never consider it with hardwoods.
#7
I saw the air nailer and manual nailer at home depot, renting for $20 a day (air) and $16 a day. I plan on the air nailer for hopefully a day, or 1.5 to 2 days if things go slow.
Correct me if I am mistaken, but the air nailer "looks" just like the manual angle nailer? How does the manual nailer operate? Does it require as much force as pounding in a nail w/ a hammer?
So assuming all joists in a give house run front to back, then ALL hardwood should run across? I guess I 've seen alot of floors installed parrallel, but they were prob. 16" OC. Only the foyer in my house is on 16's, but that's b/c the original floor is tile. Builder actually re-designed this model, used to be 24"OC in the foyer, but too many tiles were cracking (I wonder why).
We plan on installing hardwood in kitchen, which we want to run long way, which is also perp. to joists.
Lasly, I will forget I ever read anything about "light" and hardwood floors!!
Thanks for all the help!!
Dave
Correct me if I am mistaken, but the air nailer "looks" just like the manual angle nailer? How does the manual nailer operate? Does it require as much force as pounding in a nail w/ a hammer?
So assuming all joists in a give house run front to back, then ALL hardwood should run across? I guess I 've seen alot of floors installed parrallel, but they were prob. 16" OC. Only the foyer in my house is on 16's, but that's b/c the original floor is tile. Builder actually re-designed this model, used to be 24"OC in the foyer, but too many tiles were cracking (I wonder why).
We plan on installing hardwood in kitchen, which we want to run long way, which is also perp. to joists.
Lasly, I will forget I ever read anything about "light" and hardwood floors!!
Thanks for all the help!!
Dave
#8
It sounds like the light thing only applys to the really thin products. Pergo, etc... go perp to the joists.
Use the air. That sounds about right for the fee. They should give you a mallet to go with it. The mallet is specialized for hardwood flooring. The manual and air nailers look very similar.
Once you have the board in place to nail you place the nailer on the tongue of the board. It should have a metal plate that aligns the gun perfectly on the tongue. Use the metal wedge side of the mallet to tap the board in tightly. I got to where I would position the nailer, place my weight directly on the nailer, tap the board in tight with the wedge side of the mallet and fire the nail.
To fire the nail you first pull on the trigger of the gun. This will fill the cartridge with the charge for firing the nail. You should see the "big button" on the end of the cartridge pop up when the cartridge is charged. When you want to send the nail home you hit that button with the rubber side of the mallet. You have to hit it pretty hard. You'll get the feel for it after a few nails. You have to hold the trigger down the whole time. This also helps prevent accidental firing of the nail.
A couple of other points...
There should be a slide on the nail feeder that keeps pressure on the nails. Once you feed nails in you need to pull that slide up and over the new nails. Otherwise you will fire a couple of nails at one time (that's bad).
Spacing should be around 8" per nail, but read the instructions packed in with your flooring.
I sometimes found it necessary will really bowed pieces of wood to place the gun on the board and actually hammer on plate of the gun with the metal part of the mallet. When I say put your weight on it... I mean really bare down to keep the board from sliding.
NTAC
Use the air. That sounds about right for the fee. They should give you a mallet to go with it. The mallet is specialized for hardwood flooring. The manual and air nailers look very similar.
Once you have the board in place to nail you place the nailer on the tongue of the board. It should have a metal plate that aligns the gun perfectly on the tongue. Use the metal wedge side of the mallet to tap the board in tightly. I got to where I would position the nailer, place my weight directly on the nailer, tap the board in tight with the wedge side of the mallet and fire the nail.
To fire the nail you first pull on the trigger of the gun. This will fill the cartridge with the charge for firing the nail. You should see the "big button" on the end of the cartridge pop up when the cartridge is charged. When you want to send the nail home you hit that button with the rubber side of the mallet. You have to hit it pretty hard. You'll get the feel for it after a few nails. You have to hold the trigger down the whole time. This also helps prevent accidental firing of the nail.
A couple of other points...
There should be a slide on the nail feeder that keeps pressure on the nails. Once you feed nails in you need to pull that slide up and over the new nails. Otherwise you will fire a couple of nails at one time (that's bad).
Spacing should be around 8" per nail, but read the instructions packed in with your flooring.
I sometimes found it necessary will really bowed pieces of wood to place the gun on the board and actually hammer on plate of the gun with the metal part of the mallet. When I say put your weight on it... I mean really bare down to keep the board from sliding.
NTAC
#9
Do NOT strike any part of the hardwood flooring or the nailer with the metal part of the mallet. That part of the mallet is for striking a scrap or a tapping block. If you use it to hit the hardwood or the nailer, you will damage the hardwood or the nailer.
#10
I never managed to pound one so hard that it damaged the wood... or the nailer. But I have used the mallet to get a plank in place.
If a board is extremely warped you'll want to use the block or a scrap piece of wood to protect the target piece of wood. I had some pieces so warped I couldn't use them as complete pieces.
If a board is extremely warped you'll want to use the block or a scrap piece of wood to protect the target piece of wood. I had some pieces so warped I couldn't use them as complete pieces.
#11
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Do NOT strike any part of the hardwood flooring or the nailer with the metal part of the mallet. That part of the mallet is for striking a scrap or a tapping block. If you use it to hit the hardwood or the nailer, you will damage the hardwood or the nailer.