v notch pine paneling as floor?

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  #1  
Old 10-26-09, 05:55 PM
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v notch pine paneling as floor?

I've been thinking about putting a wide plank pine floor in my cabin in NH. Looking at the wide plank flooring companies, their stuff is VERY expensive.

Recently I was at the local lumber yard near the cabin and saw that they have 10" V notch tongue and groove pine panelling that when flipped over is a flush tongue and groove and looks like it would make a perfect floor. It is 3/4" thick and The price of this stuff was $1.05/LF compared to $7 to $9 / SF for the flooring from the wide plank company.

Is their stuff that much better to warrant that much difference in price?

I know I am missing something?
 
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  #2  
Old 10-26-09, 06:18 PM
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Yep. There's a big difference between Linear feet and Square feet. But just to ward you off, the bead board panels are too soft for flooring. They are usually fir. If they are southern yellow pine, then they may be strong enough surface wise. But dealing with the grooves will be a bear! I looked at my local salvage lumber yard recently and found 3" wide Ironwood for $2/sf. Great deal. I only needed 300 sf to finish my cabin, but waited too long to go back and get it. My loss.
Try salvage lumber yards for flooring. You can come up with good alternatives at a reasonable price.
 
  #3  
Old 10-27-09, 07:05 AM
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Thanks Chandler,

The panelling is Eastern White Pine, the same as the Carlisle floor that I'm looking at. Are there different types of Eastern white pine?
I'm not sure I understand why dealing with the grooves would be a bear? the panels are completely flat on the back with no grooves and sanded smooth. The edge is not eased at all. The front side has the edges beveled at 45 degrees (no beads). They are 1x10, so true dimensions are 3/4 x 9 1/2 less about 3/8" for the tongue would leave a 9" face.

At about $1/LF that would be approx $1.35/ square foot. compared to $7 to $9 per SF for the Carlisle floor depending on width of the boards you choose from them. To be clear the Carlisle Eastern White Pine floor is "sustainably harvested in the cold climates of Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire". So NOT old growth/Antique boards.

This is a cabin, and I think any Pine floor is going to be soft and show signs of wear or "patina" over time which I am expecting. I plan to use Waterlox Satin to finish whatever floor I wind up going with.
Do you still think there is a big enough difference?
Thanks for your help!
 
  #4  
Old 10-27-09, 08:13 AM
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OK, I thought you were using the standard T&G used on walls. If you have a flat surface and you are willing to deal with the cuts and scratches (patina as you call it), then this type flooring would be excellent. Bear in mind that it isn't as hard as the higher priced flooring, but it probably won't matter in a cabin situation. The only other problem I could see would be cupping on such a wide board. Do you have plans on face nailing anywhere in the middle of the board? Just an observation.
 
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Old 10-27-09, 08:25 AM
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A couple of years ago we rented a cabin in the smokies. I don't remember what was on the 1st floor but the 2nd floor [bed rms] had 1x6 T&G pine that doubled both as the floor and the exposed ceiling from above. [no sub floor] Everyone thought it looked nice although my wife said I was the only one that would notice the scars in the floor and the occasional gap that allowed light to show thru.

Personally I would be leary of using a soft wood for flooring but if the cabin isn't used year round.......
 
  #6  
Old 10-27-09, 02:44 PM
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thanks, I hadnt thought about face nailing. I know it is done on some rustic floors. but I'd prefer not to myself.

I've heard that some people will actually beat on the floor with chains and screws etc to 'antique' the floor prior to staining. I'd consider doing this as well.

check out the carlisle website at Hit or Miss Eastern White Pine Dining Room — Carlisle Wide Plank Floors
and click "more of this wood type" to get a sense of what I'm going for.

thx
 
  #7  
Old 12-23-09, 08:22 AM
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flooring

I thought about this too, Untill I talked to a floor guy and the cupping would be an issue. Thats why there are slits on the back of real hardwood boards.
 
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Old 02-09-11, 07:25 AM
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I want to revive this thread. I'm Still remodelling the cabin and getting ready to do the floor. I'm down to 6" or 8" wide boards and strongly considering using the 1X V notch panelling with the V facing down leaving a flat tongue and grooved floor. I used the same material on the walls in the bathroom in 10" wide boards with the V facing out. no problems with cuping even in the wet envirionment. I installed with 1/4" narrow crown staples. I did have a little shrinkage on the width of the boards, but I attribute that to me not letting the wood dry completely. It was a fresh load at the yard, and had not been picked through yet, so I got to pick out great quality boards, but I think it was not completely dry when I put it up.

If I were to use the same material 1x 8 or 1x6 (eastern white pine v notch panelling), I would stack and sticker it in the room to be installed for at least a month to make sure it was aclimated.

I would finish the floor with a stain and Waterlox, which is the same stuff that Carlisle Wide Plank flooring sells under its own brand name.
 

Last edited by mchristo; 02-09-11 at 07:26 AM. Reason: spelling mistake
  #9  
Old 02-10-11, 04:43 AM
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You're still gonna have a slight joint problem. Do you plan on sanding it prior to applying finish? If not, be prepared for the slight "v" where it joins. I did the v joint in two bathrooms of my rental cabin (not sure if I mentioned it in other posts) and it has held up rather well. You said you used a narrow crown stapler. I am assuming you used it on the tongue at an angle, right? That way it would be hidden by the next row.
 
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Old 02-10-11, 06:50 AM
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Chandler, I'm not understanding what you mean when you say "slight "v" where it joins"? I would install it V side down, so the exposed part of the joint would be exactly the same as any t & g wood flooring.
Yes on the walls I used a narrow crown stapler through the tongue at an angle into the studs, thus hiding all the fasteners with the groove of the next board and so on.
On the floor I would use a flooring stapler.

I guess my real question is: what is the difference between Eastern White Pine wall panelling vs Eastern white pine flooring (other than the V notch)? I would run the boards through a table saw several times cutting shallow relief grooves on the bottom of the board similar to dedicated flooring boards.

I'm looking at a difference in price that is 4 or 5 times more for "flooring" vs wall paneling for the same species and thickness of wood.

With the wall panelling, at my lumber yard I can pick through and select my boards one by one, getting all long boards and very little waste, where as with the flooring, I would have to order it and take what I get.

For such a big price difference, Im thinking there must be a difference, but I can't see it.
 
  #11  
Old 02-10-11, 03:02 PM
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I think what Chandler is saying is that even though you will be flipping the boards, the nail or staple will pull the corner down a little where the staple hits the subfloor due to the void from the "v" underneath. I am curious if you are going to sand the floor to take out the mill marks or leave then in like your example.
 
  #12  
Old 02-11-11, 06:53 AM
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I hadn't thought about the void the V will leave, but i can't see the staple compressing the board enough to change how it lies on the subfloor. I think the staple will just sink into the wood before creating even a slight V. but I could be wrong about that.

Your point about the void from the V does make me wonder if there will be enough material for the staple to actually hold on to, and/or if it will split the tongue off the board.

What I seem to be gathering from the responses is that any potential problems are from the V joint and not any inherent difference in the wood itself.

I will do a couple of test boards on a sheet of 3/4" plywood to simulate the subfloor and see how the staples go in and hold. (and if the V creates any problems)

Thanks for your help and advice.
 
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Old 02-11-11, 06:28 PM
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My worry with the choice of wood would be if it is fir or spruce, it will be too soft for foot traffic. Hopefully what you have been looking at is Yellow Pine, which is harder.
 
  #14  
Old 02-14-11, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
My worry with the choice of wood would be if it is fir or spruce, it will be too soft for foot traffic. Hopefully what you have been looking at is Yellow Pine, which is harder.
Both options are the same species - Eastern White Pine which is a local wood that has been used as flooring in New England for hundreds of years. It gets little dings and dents pretty easily, but for me that is part of the character of a wide pine floor.
 
  #15  
Old 02-14-11, 12:46 PM
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Wide Pine Flooring

After trying out the v notch pine with the V side down, I don't think the flooring staples will have enough material where the void from the V is to have a good enough hold and not break the tongue off.

So...I'm going to go with proper flooring material. Thanks for all your advice on that.

question now is how important are the relief cuts on the bottom side of the flooring boards? I'm going to go with random widths 8, 10, 12, 14 inches, and found a source for these, but they do not cut the relief grooves on the bottom of the boards. I am planning to face nail them, so I don't know how important the grooves are?

I'm pretty sure that all those old wide pine floors in New England do not have them.
 
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Old 02-14-11, 02:45 PM
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At those widths, I would allow for expansion and contraction within the board itself, and the grooves may do the trick. NOW, if you are going to "face" nail these, why not go with your original plan and face nail the T&G? I agree with the character thingy on the dents, looks well worn in. The old pine floors in New England were virgin timber, yours ain't. I'd compensate.
 
  #17  
Old 02-16-11, 12:53 PM
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Even if I face nail, I would still want to install with nails or staples on the tongue first. I think the staples will split off the tongue due to the void from the V underneath and cause a lot of frustration. Also, I found a source for proper wide pine flooring that is much more reasonable than I thought was available. It is available in wider boards too. Now I'm looking at random widths 10, 12,14,16" widths!
 
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