Laminated wood over tile and steps question

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Old 08-10-12, 09:28 AM
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Laminated wood over tile and steps question

HI,

I am planning to install laminated wood over tile on a converted garage that is my office. What kind of underlayment is recommended, if any? what kind of preparation I need, if any, on the tiles?
Also, I have 1 step entering the room that is also covered with tiles. How do I install the laminated over the steps? pictures are attached.
thanks a lot.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-10-12, 10:14 AM
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This is just a click-lock, floating laminate floor you're installing?
 
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Old 08-10-12, 11:46 AM
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the laminate wood that it sold at Home Depot that don't use nails I assume is what you call click-lock something like this: Tacoma Oak 7mm Thick x 7-9/16 in. W x 50-5/8 in. L Laminate Flooring (23.93 Sq.Ft/Case) --DISCONTINUED-HL85 at The Home Depot
 
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Old 08-10-12, 12:41 PM
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I use the red underlayment with the white vermiculite type dots on it, dots down. Better buy enough to do the job plus a little, as it is discontinued. As far as your steps, you will need to be creative. You won't apply laminate to the step tread. You should buy a standard oak stair tread and fasten it to the framing below the tile. Take the tile off the tread area you have now, as it is not needed, and will hinder attachment of the stair tread. The riser....well....you could glue up laminate horizontally around the perimeter of the riser area. You will need to address the two corners, and whether you will miter them or not.
 
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Old 08-10-12, 02:19 PM
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You use the red underlayment that is discontinued. My question was and still is what type of underlayment is required for laminated wood over tile, if any. I need options and I am looking to be informed before making any decisions. About the steps:
Do the flooring companies sell color matching step treads?
What does it mean to fasten it to the framing below the tile?
How do you address the tow corners?
What is miter them or not?
How do you "connect" or deal with the walls of the steps meeting the floor?
Can you just put another oak horizontal piece on the walls of the step?

I am a beginner and I am researching the topic so I can DIY the floor.
 
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Old 08-10-12, 03:04 PM
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My grammatical error. No the underlayment is not discontinued. Your flooring is. Just didn't tie it together very well.
Step treads will be oak, which is the grain of your laminate, so by staining and polyurethane treating, you can match it pretty well. Laminate is not made for step treads.
Fastening the stair treads to the framing is essential to keep it from being too tall, first, and to keep it solidly appied. I don't think glue will hold it very well. .
Your stair tread will overlap the two corners, so that's a non issue. If you choose to laminate the "walls"- corners, you will need to miter the ends of the laminate and glue it to the tile vertically. If you choose not to miter them, you will be stuck with a flat joint and you will see the end grain of the laminate on the sides. The "walls" of the steps are the risers that I just mentioned. You can put an oak piece as a riser, but it is 1 1/4" thick and I don't think you want to do that.
I would remove everything associated with the steps and reconfigure them. The top is skewed and tile is not friendly with what you have to do there.
Your picture does not show what that yellow horizontal piece is, and I am hoping it is not part of the door frame. That would make your step from the step into the room above more than 10" which is too much.
The yellow vertical members are case molding and will be undercut to accept your stair tread material. The two short horizontal molding members will be removed temporarily until all the construction of the steps is finished.
 
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Old 08-10-12, 10:21 PM
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I know the laminated I mentioned is discontinued, I used as an example of what I will like to use (material, color, and price wise). The AirGuard underlayment is about $.60 a square foot, very expensive and almost the same price as the laminated wood. Is there an alternative?
I understand the issue of the risers, I don't think I have the skills to do a nice trimmed, clean job with the laminate there. What about a thinner than 1 1/4 wood there?. I have seen stairs with white risers and don't look bad.
The yellow horizontal piece is the actual door (the case molding on the frame continues down as you can see).
I realize now that I would have to deal with the top raiser that connects to the elevated tile floor, (were no stair tread will cover the 90 angle)
How can I deal with the connection to the top tile floor on the other room?
 
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Old 08-11-12, 04:48 AM
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I have seen stairs with white risers and don't look bad.
I've done a lot of stairs with painted risers - it does look good and is a cheaper alternative to all oak. The only drawback is the risers are prone for scuff marks from the toe of your shoe bumping into it.

How can I deal with the connection to the top tile floor on the other room?
If feasible you'd remove a small strip of tile [not past the door] and install an oak threshold.
 
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Old 08-11-12, 05:19 AM
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The cost of the underlayment goes with the territory. Find an underlayment that you can afford and use it. You asked for a recommendation. I don't do cheap.
For the steps. Remove all the tile all the way to the door. Install 1x8 poplar, ripped to size and mitered around the step carcass, or butt joint with the front overlapping the two sides. Install 1x8 poplar, trimmed to size on the upper part where the tile is presently. Install a standard stair tread on the bottom to cover the poplar. The nose is built in and will cap over the poplar. Since we can't see the tile in the room above, Marksr's idea of a threshold is probably best. I would cut back the tile and install a ripped stair tread above as well, but I don't know what it looks like and what thickness you have to deal with.
 
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Old 08-12-12, 09:38 PM
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Thanks folks. I wanted to upload more pictures of the tile in the room above and details either on this responses or to the original Thread but I can't. Let me know if you know how to.
Back to the problem.
Chandler: What I wanted to know is what appropriate kind of underlayment (foam, cork, film, etc) to use over tile when installing a floating laminated wood floor, regardless of price or quality. I'll probably go with your recommendation anyway. Don't have the tools and skills to do what you suggest on the step nor I feel comfortable to strip tile. The solution I device is:
Remove the tiles on the tread only and keep the tiles on the risers, and floor above (I am ok with the look of the white tiles for the risers).
I will then install unfinished oak retread on the only step i have and a metal silver stair edging on the top, without touching the tiles (just nail holes) right below the door: Silver Fluted 36 in. Stair Edging-78022 at The Home Depot

The door has enough clearance to move over the edging but on one side, so I may need to adjust the frame or trim the door a bit on the bottom.
What kind of chisel or tool do I need to remove the tiles on the tread?
Thanks a lot folks!
 
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Old 08-13-12, 03:20 AM
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If you are OK with the tile as risers, that's great! Much less work. Underlayment will be the life of the laminate, so just shop and use what the manufacturer recommends, whether it be over concrete, tile, or wood subflooring, it will be the same.
In order to post more pictures, click on the "reply to thread" rather than "post quick reply". Not sure why the picture posting feature was disabled on the quick reply, but it is. Then click on the picture posting icon above and follow the instructions.
In all probability, the tile will not take much to remove. A cold chisel with a wide blade may be your best bet, although if you have a screwdriver handy, I'd try that first and avoid the purchase of an item you may never use again.
We'll look forward to the pix you post.
 
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Old 08-13-12, 07:36 AM
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Thanks for the advice, here are two pictures of the steps. You can see how the riser tile and floor above meet (I don't like it).
About the stair tread. How do you attach it to the riser after removing the tile?
Is it possible to find finished wood steps?
If I buy unfinished oak, do you stain it before or after installation?
The tread that I look at is this one: 0.625 in. x 11.5 in. x 48 in. Unfinished White Oak Retread-XBTWO1148 at The Home Depot

It doesn't have rounded sides I assume because it is to be cut to fit. How to do finish the sides of the step once is cut? Do you normally leave an overhang of wood on the sides of a step like this one? is there another piece of wood that I can attach to the sides for a better look?

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Old 08-13-12, 08:55 AM
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I always prefer to stain and apply 1-2 coats of poly before installation. It's easier to do that way plus you cut down the amount of time the steps will be out of service.

I'd expect there to be a plywood and 2x construction under the tile. You'd need to remove the tile and any cement board if it was used. You'd then attach the oak to the plywood. The ends of the tread could be rounded off with a router [or maybe belt sander] I'm a painter, not a carpenter so wait and see what they have to say about the installation and addressing the ends of the tread.
 
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Old 08-13-12, 12:19 PM
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http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ryId=202088436

I had in mind this tread, at half the cost. If I were building a staircase, I would cut in returns for the sides, but I think in your instance, it would suffice to do as Marksr suggested and round the edges off with either a router or sanding. Yes, leave about an inch on either side as overhang. Cut it all to fit, remove it and do your staining and poly, then reinstall it and nail it down to the framing.
As far as the tile in the doorway, yeah, it needs something. It may be that your idea of the transition molding would work. You would have to drill holes in the tile for the screws/nails to fit and that may be a task.
 
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Old 08-13-12, 02:22 PM
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Thanks guys,
Chandler: Where did you get that tread one at half the cost? I didn't see it at home depot.com!. looks good to me.
What do you mean by "cut in returns for the sides" ??
about the drill holes, everything is a big task for my skills! I guess in order to avoid cracking I need to pre drill the holes for the metal molding.
How can I trim the door on the handle side from below? I need more clearance there to fit the molding.
THanks guys!
really helpful information.
 
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Old 08-13-12, 02:27 PM
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You'd take the door down to trim off what you need to from the bottom.
The returns Larry is talking about is where you take and cut the nose off of another tread or nosing and then nail/glue it to the edge on the sides. It would have a 45 degree cut at the corner. That's how a pro carpenter would do it - router or sander is easier for us amateurs
 
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Old 08-13-12, 03:09 PM
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This is what we use with a staircase with one exposed end. Note the tail? It can be cut at 45 degrees and will accept a ripped nose from a piece of stair tread material to do a return back to the outside stringer, or run along a wider stringer and die to it. Expensive and not what you want in this instance, anyway.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...715007_300.jpg
 
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Old 09-14-12, 06:50 AM
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Ready to work

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Size:  18.3 KBHi guys, it's been A while, I am ready to lay down the floor tomorrow. I have everything including the stair tread. my concern now is. How to attach it to the steps once I remove the tile over it. Can I use just liquid nail if there is wood under it? (This one is going to be a very busy step) do i need nails, screws? How to finish and cover the nails? I am concern about the look and finish.
ALso, I will be using a standard 3 1/4 tall white pine primed baseboard,
I will leave the step wall with the tile, but figured I need to cover the joint of the new laminated against the tiled riser. Can I use a white or stained shoe mold over there instead of the tall baseboard? Can't imagine what is going to look better. Also if I use shoe mold how I am going to attach it to the tile behind?
Thanks.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 09:36 AM
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You would nail the tread [you can use adhesive too] in place and then use colored putty to fill the nail holes after the wood is stained and one coat of poly applied. IMO it's always best to stain/poly the treads prior to installation.
I don't see any way around using liquid nail on the shoe mold unless you remove the tile and install a wood riser.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 10:39 AM
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after removing the tread I discover cement or concrete or ? below (but wood)
How do I prepare (clean) this surface to receive the tread and how do i attach it now?
I Have 6D 2'' nails for the baseboard. Will they work for the tread? AS for the tile riser, is there any way or idea for finishing there without removing the tile?
Also, do I need to stain and poly the bottom part of the tread as well or is it unnecessary?
Thanks.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 01:14 PM
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Are the steps made of CMU or wood with a concrete backer underlayment for the tile attachment?? If it is CMU, then nails won't penetrate it adequately. Your best bet will be PL Advanced or equivalent. I would sand the edges of my tread to match the front bullnose, rounding it over. One fly in the ointment.....if the CMU is 8" tall, placing your bullnose tread on top will raise it to 9", which is too tall for normal steps. Of course the existing tile has mitigated that somewhat by about 3/8" and your laminate will further raise the floor another 1/4", but still not within standards of 7" or so.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 01:57 PM
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You don't need to stain/finish the bottom side of the tread. I usually stain about the first inch or so of the bottom side of the tread so it doesn't show raw wood from below but I don't think anyone will have their head low enough see the bottom edge of yours.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 02:54 PM
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HI, I don't know what the step is made off, but it's not wood for sure. I have removed the least exposed tile on the side and it reveals the original step into the garage (house is from 1946) it's a very sturdy, hard surface, looks like concrete. the riser stands 7 1/4 from the tile floor to the end of the tiled wall of the step. I will need explanation/translation for almost all you have said:
CMU:
Concrete backer underlayment:
PL Advanced:
"one fly in the ointment" too:

AS far as sanding the edges of the tread, I am not so sure how I can make it look good or even close to the front (is that the bullnose?). I actually like the straight edge as a modern touch and it will kill another thing to worry about.
So again, How do I attach the tread ?
 
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Old 09-14-12, 03:04 PM
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Thanks!, I won't stain the bottom
 
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Old 09-14-12, 03:06 PM
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PL Advanced is something like liquid nail - Construction Adhesive from Loctite | The Home Depot - Model 1417170

Is the step base made of block or concrete .... or is it wood with cement board attached to lay the tile?
 
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Old 09-14-12, 03:13 PM
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I open up the tile on the side, the pic is on the answer to chandler today at 5:54PM.
It is not made of wood for sure. It looks like concrete or block (oth top and side). And now that i open the side, I may be have to deal with removing the tile around and build the risers with wood (I was trying to avoid that. Now on another note I have a friend coming tomorrow morning to help me out do the laminate installation. Can I put the laminate and THEN work the risers with wood after removing the tile (All I can do before tomorrow is remove the tile around the step and clean the cement). I knew it! it would be more and more complicated!!!! damm...crap...help!
 
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Old 09-14-12, 04:05 PM
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CMU = concrete masonry unit, or concrete block. Sorry for using the confusing nomenclature
Concrete backer underlayment is commonly laid over wood in order to give tile a solid surface to be applied. Comes in several names....Durock and Hardiebacker for two.
Mark got ya on PL Advanced.
If you were born after 1950, disregard the fly in the ointment comment. It won't make sense for me to explain it. It just means there's more complicated things ahead, but you already know that, right?
To attach the tread, buy PL Advanced and a caulk gun. Apply it to the concrete step in an irregular pattern. Lay your tread on it, center it, and possibly lay a concrete block on top of it until the PL cures, maybe 24 hours.
I would definitely put off the risers and tread until you got the flooring down. You got help coming, don't slow them down
 
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Old 09-14-12, 05:04 PM
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Thanks so much, You guys are great and very helpful.
I will remove the tile, clean the best I can the step and riser in order to put the laminate tomorrow morning. In the meantime I am staining the tread and is looking good. The PL Advanced solution is very good news (no screws/nails or holes). I have a caulking gun and know how to use it. Now to the risers: how do I build them of wood, what type/thickness?. Can I use the PL Advanced to attach the risers also? Now I guess I am also going to remove the vertical tile riser that goes above the tread before the aluminum stair edging that I already installed and give it the same wood treatment as the lower raiser. More work but should look better at the end.
 
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Old 09-14-12, 05:34 PM
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I am glad you have decided to move the tile. It was not going to tie itself in with your new flooring at all. Cut your risers to fit front to back and across it all. Mainly because I fear you don't have a table saw where you can miter the edges for the corners to make them invisible. If you do, my apologies, and we'll get to that. Yes, the PL will also be a good adhesive for the risers on the concrete monolith, or whatever it is. Make sure it is clean, OK? The PL may not want to play nice on a dirty surface. I would use 3/4" birch plywood if you are going to stain them. You can probably buy a "handy" sheet at big orange, enough to do the riser all around and the top apron.
More work will build more pride in the finished product. We're here.
 
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Old 09-19-12, 07:25 AM
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ok, back to the step into the room. After a looong day of laminating the floor. I was left with the walls peeling wallpaper! at the bottom were I had removed the baseboards (i am replacing with new ones). I had to take care of that and I am finishing the walls now, something totally unexpected and nightmarish ( damm wallpaper!). I am going to be able to get back to the riser in a couple of days and want to gather the information and materials. SO:
I will get a nice 3/4 birch plywood, to "cage" the step. Cut to size, stain, poly, then mitter (is it how you say when creating the 90 degree from two 45 degree cuts of wood?) the pieces and then glue with the PL before installing the step above also with PL?
 
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Old 09-19-12, 01:41 PM
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You are correct with that. Let us know if we can help.
 
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