type of subfloor to use

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  #1  
Old 01-09-14, 07:11 AM
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type of subfloor to use

I'm starting the process of finishing my basement and am little overwhelmed by all the differing opinions on wall and floor insulating and subflooring.
Basement is dry and only got water when drain in outside stairwell got clogged by one large leaf.
Looking to insulate walls with rigid foam all the way around then frame and add batting.
The floor needs to support a 10ft billiard table (1 1/2 inch slates and heavy hard maple base) that weighs at least 1500 pounds. the four feet are 22" x 9" which spreads the weight out a little. Is DMX 1 step,platon or delta fl with osb on top ok for this (finished floor will probably be laminate or engineered). I like the idea of better insulating room by using 1 inch rigid foam and osb no sleepers but not sure if foam will support the table over period of time and this is something you don't want to have move to fix problem later.
Also,can laminate or engineered flooring (if using floating setup) cause problem around table with separation due to expansion and contraction but spots under feet allowing zero movement due to heavy weight.??
 
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Old 01-09-14, 07:42 AM
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Laminates not going to be a good choice for this one.
Considered tile?
 
  #3  
Old 01-09-14, 02:55 PM
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A little worried about durability with possible errant billiard balls
 
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Old 01-09-14, 05:58 PM
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First off, if you look at the compression rating of the rigid foam board it is quite impressive. Yes, you can easily dent it but remember, it will be sandwiched under a layer of OSB. The OSB distributes the load over a wide area so the actual PSI at any point is not large.
That said... are you considering using both DMX or Delta FL AND rigid foam? Not sure how that would work, you may have to have a layer of OSB between them (e.g. slab, DMX, osb, XPS, OSB, flooring). That an awful lot of separate layers!
Honestly a big (supposed) advantage of the stippled subfloors is that they create a thermal break between the slab and subflooring. Here in MD, that's probably enough (thats all I'm doing in my basement ).

Regarding the floor covering, perhaps you should the rubber-backed drop-down carpet tiles. They will absorb a dropped pool ball pretty well, and in the event of flooding etc would be easy to pull up.
 
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Old 01-10-14, 04:51 AM
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That said... are you considering using both DMX or Delta FL AND rigid foam? Not sure how that would work, you may have to have a layer of OSB between them (e.g. slab, DMX, osb, XPS, OSB, flooring). That an awful lot of separate layers!
Honestly a big (supposed) advantage of the stippled subfloors is that they create a thermal break between the slab and subflooring. Here in MD, that's probably enough (thats all I'm doing in my basement ).

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ba...#ixzz2pzvkTYxs
thinking one or the other; "stippled" mat-osb or rigid foam-osb ,..
I'm also in Maryland and with zero insulation at the moment in basement, the temp is at 56 +\- so how big a difference would R value of one method over the other be (1 inch foam on concrete under osb versus delta fl/dmx/ or platon types of material on concrete under osb)
 

Last edited by measure2; 01-10-14 at 04:54 AM. Reason: a term correction
  #6  
Old 01-10-14, 08:06 AM
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Curious, where are you in MD?
I'm in the upper NE corner near PA & DE outside bel air.
My experience was that once I put up 2" XPS against the walls (framed in front), the temp went up notably. This is in a completely sub-terrain section.
Watched a video on MDX yesterday, they claim an R2 benefit. Delta FL dosn't have a rating but its basically the same stuff. So that vs 1" XPS (R5) my gut feeling is that the difference would not be huge.
Only 56 degrees? You must be well insulated from the house.
 
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Old 01-10-14, 09:25 AM
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Curious, where are you in MD?
I'm in the upper NE corner near PA & DE outside bel air.
My experience was that once I put up 2" XPS against the walls (framed in front), the temp went up notably. This is in a completely sub-terrain section.
Watched a video on MDX yesterday, they claim an R2 benefit. Delta FL dosn't have a rating but its basically the same stuff. So that vs 1" XPS (R5) my gut feeling is that the difference would not be huge.
Only 56 degrees? You must be well insulated from the house
.

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ba...#ixzz2q0z6XQrT

In the Parkville area...no insulation yet between 1st floor and basement (only old batting at rim joist),will probably use some sort of sound proofing/insulation between basement ceiling joists to keep billiard room noise down and insulate rooms.
Back to subfloor I have found researching delta and platon etc. and it looks like R value on platon is .68

found this list compiled by someone on redflagdeals site (Canadians ought to know their insulation right? )

R-Value (from manufacturer/store site) (highest to lowest)
*OSB (5/8") - 0.74* (found this value from random site, not sure about density of OSB)

OvrX Barricade - 3.2 (warms room by 5C)
Tyroc - 3.2 (warms room by ~3.8-4.4C)
DMX - 2.24 (2.98 with OSB)
DriCore - 1.7 (warms room by 3.2C)
Platon - 0.68 (1.42 with OSB)
Delta FL - (no r-value claim) <1, same as platon?
Superseal - ?

One concern I've come across with the dimpled products (delta fl etc.) was what happens when water fills in those little cups (dimples) after some sort of flooding problem (hope it never happen's ..but). Read a review (wished I could locate it again) where homeowner had to tear up (subfloor built with delta and osb) floor and replaced it(with ovrx) since water filled cups caused mold under osb.
 

Last edited by measure2; 01-10-14 at 09:31 AM. Reason: correction
  #8  
Old 01-13-14, 05:28 AM
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what's best flooring for basement billiard room?

What type of flooring is appropriate for going under heavy billiard table ( 10 x 5 ft 1940's victor, 1 1/2 " slate) that's approx 1500 + pounds.
Going to be in basement and subfloor will be osb over delta fl or rigid foam.
the feet (4) on the table are large ( 9" x 22")
Floor would also need to be durable enough to withstand billiard ball hits also since its inevitable that they will come off table at some point.
 
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Old 01-13-14, 09:22 AM
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It looks nice and clean down there, I used to have one like that. Now I can't find it .
I was going to suggest a tile floor directly over the concrete. Basement floors are often a source of moisture and the existence of a vapor barrier or its condition is questionable.

Is this brand new construction or do you have a few years of history to know there is no water problem. I see what looks like a prior pool of water. Always note, moisture and water are two different issues.

Bud
 
  #10  
Old 01-13-14, 09:52 AM
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Bud ..house is 20 years old,.. no existing moisture problems.. round spot on floor in photo is concrete patched where lally column was, I the had steel beam reinforced (then removed column) to create large enough space (24 x 17 +)for 10 ft table ..., Want to insulate the floor somewhat.
 
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Old 01-13-14, 10:36 AM
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measure2: I combined your two threads into one since you were asking the same question twice.
 
  #12  
Old 01-13-14, 11:32 AM
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thanks,.. hoping someone else has run into similar construction issues....
 
  #13  
Old 01-16-14, 10:23 AM
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Never recommend my customers put carpet, any type of hardwood or laminate flooring in a basement.
Basements always tend to gather moisture especially in older homes. Also you never know what might happen down the road . Pipe leakage , water tank leaking, drains backing up , water backing up from drains located near exits. I even seen water enter from above from a bursted hose in a fridge. You will destroy your floors. Tiles in my opinion is the best choice for basement floors. That's just my opinion but other Contractors will just say go for it since you dont have water problems in their.
 
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Old 01-21-14, 11:25 AM
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thanks Zack

I have an outside drain at bottom of stairwell and it got clogged once even though I inspect it regularly, a single large leaf got suctioned onto it , luckily I was home and checked it during the heavy rain storm and water had just started to enter through bottom of basement door,removed said leaf and crisis averted....like you stated though there are many things that could go wrong (my neighbor lost some hardwood in his basement due to fridge leak from above,...
Trying to plan to head off most of these problems,..I'll add one of those strip or linear drains just inside the basement door. I think there is some kind of automatic shutoff you can get for the fridge's water line (floodsafe-10ft-ice-maker-kit detects pressure change maybe).
As far as using tile goes, would it be durable enough to withstand errant billiard ball striking it??? Also wouldn't concrete floor need to really flat for tile job to look good, I guessing when you recommend tiling your talking about install right over the slab, no subfloor right??? ( my floor looks pretty flat but I haven't gone over all of it with a long straight edge yet)
 
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