Hey guys, I'm new to this forum. Thanks in advance for your opinions. I am tearing up carpeted floors in three rooms to make way for the pre-finished oak flooring (2-1/4" width). The sub-floor is 1x material (like 1 x 8's) attached to the floor joists (~1970's construction). On top of the subfloor is some sort of 1/2" material (Masonite maybe???, looks almost like a cross between paper and OSB) then there was a foam padding and then the carpet. I have taken up the carpeting and the foam pad but I am wondering if I have to remove the Masonite type material and replace it with 1/2" CDX? If I'm using 2" staples to "nail" down the floor do I really need to take up this layer and is it necessary to replace it with the CDX for strength and or noise issues? I will be adding a layer of felt paper. I do have quite a bit of DIY experience but I have never tackled hardwood floors. I have done tile flooring and laminates but not hardwood. Thank you.

 

Welcome to the forums. From your description, you have particle board. It's inventor was tarred and feathered......well he should have been. Poor excuse for subflooring. Yes, it should all come up and be replaced with a minimum of 5/8 if not 3/4" plywood or Advantech. Driving staples into particle board with age on it, tends to crumble it. Not a requirement, but if you have the option, use cleats. Less misfires and good fastener setting.

 

Chandler thanks for the reply. Isn't the 1X material the subfloor? The "particle board" is on top of the 1x's almost as "padding" for the carpet. And actually the particle board is probably closer to 1/4" than 1/2". Wouldn't the 2" staples go right thru the particle board and into the 1X sufficiently to hold the hardwood? My question would then be is it ok to lay the hardwood in the same direction as the 1X material?

 

As Larry mentioned, the PB tends to fall apart when nails pass thru which would weaken the fastening properties of the nail. IMO you'd be better off removing it. If you intend to lay the hardwood in the same direction of the subfloor you definitely need a layer of plywood.

 

The 1x material is usually 1/8" to 1/4" gapped and not butted up against each other. It also has a ton of knot holes in it and frankly, is hardly ever truely flat and has lots of splinters. Your 1/4" top layer adds nothing to the mix other than it mean the cleats will have that much less bite into good wood. In those areas where there are voids between the planks you will get no bite -zero, nada and the floating nail will be the source of squeaks for the rest of the life of the floor. Laying down 3/4" Advantech smooths out the floor, is designed to grab and hold your cleats tight and is the minimum recommended thickness for those flooring cleats that will inevitably get driven into the void areas between the planks. For nail down floorings or tile, it doesn't matter, 1/4" anything needs to be removed be it plywood, luan or the brown board/chip board you have down. It is there only to smooth out the voids in the planks so you did not feel them through the carpet.

 

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen. Can I get away with 1/2" plywood (for height reasons) on top of the 1X material? Seems like it would be strong enough on top of the already present 1x. Then I can lay the hardwood in the same direction as the original subfloor. Thanks again.

 

If OSB then minimum 3/4", for plywood you may be OK with 1/2". I always err toward a beefier installation if I have to put a warranty on it. Definitely remove the 1/4" hardboard and screw the planks down. Then screw the ply down. I'll plead for 5/8" plywood only 'cause I want you to be happy with the results. Hardwood should be perpendicular to the floor joists so that the individual pieces span across the joists. If the room is very large, consider splitting it up and starting in the center and work your way out in both directions using a spline to connect the center runs. It will minimize the expansion and contraction factor. You won't be able to tell the difference from top side.

 

Thanks Czizzi. You have been a wealth of information. I will look at 5/8" and see if I can get away with that height. I didn't even think of screwing the original boards down. I imagine this would be for noise purposes in the future, is that correct. And then the ply would go down across the joists as well (i.e. the 8 foot dimension across the joists). Is that correct? Or vice/versa? Thanks again.

 

You are correct, across the joists. Use 2" deck screws to screw down the planks and the ply. Screw the planks into the joists, screw the 2nd layer ply into the planks only, not the joists. If you have squeaks, pull the offending nails while you are screwing things down.

We love to see final pictures, so check back when muscles begin to heal and you can muster enough energy to snap some pictures. Don't over due it, you will find at least one muscle you did not know you had.

 

Hate to keep bugging you guys but just curious as to why you have to avoid screwing the second layer of ply into the joists? I saw on another thread that Chandler had mentioned this also. Does that tend to make the screw loosen up because it is going thru too many layers and thus cause sqeeking? Thanks as always.

 

guys how do I post the pictures

 

Here ya go!! http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html

 

071ebd5e-95cd-49fd-b968-10e91ce0f715_zps24911ac8.jpg Photo by bobbyd821 | Photobucket

 

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psafae08bf.jpg

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psbabe297a.jpg

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http://rs1368.pbsrc.com/albums/ag168...ef5c2.jpg~c100

Really turned out great thanks to all your advice. Have to ask another question regarding stairs. Now that the floors turned out so well I am going to tackle my stairway. My plan is to use oak retreads over the existing plywood. You guys think this is ok? My question really is how to make the transition from stair to laminate art the top. The hallway upstairs has 8mm (???) laminate

 

Oh, my aching back !! That's a lot of hardwood. Trimmed nicely and door casings cut well. Looks good. You should be proud.

 

Czizzi you were absolutely correct about finding muscles that I never knew I had. It really was a lot of work. But very gratifying after it turned out so well. I screwed down the original floor boards and then went with 5/8" plywood over that. The floor is solid as a rock thanks to you. Not a squeak anywhere to be heard.

 

Hi Chandler. Yes it was about 500 sq. ft. Took me about 5 weekends working 12 hours a day. But I like that kind of work and it is very gratifying when you're done. You guys really helped me thru this project.

 

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psc44ef5c2.jpg

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...ps791fc5b5.jpg

 

Fantastic!!!

Probably time to replenish the bottle of motrin in the medicine cabinet, but worth every ache and pain. This is what doing it yourself should be all about. Done once, done right with beautiful results.

What a warm comfortable room you have created. You sir, deserve a well earn beverage.