squeaky osb and radiant heat

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Old 03-25-15, 12:27 PM
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squeaky osb and radiant heat

When we built our home osb was used on the first floor over hot water radiant heat.during building process floor got wet from rain several times.After finishing house and putting down laminate floor over osb we have had terrible creaky floors.Recently pulled up and found all the nails pulled loose moving up and down.Trying to put deck screws in it to hold down to put more flooring down.I'm afraid with radiant heat and the fact of the floor getting wet before that it will still creak! Should I remove old osb and put down new 3/4" plywood before putting down floor or will it be okay this way with a layer of 1/2" plywood on top of it?
 
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Old 03-25-15, 02:26 PM
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Minimum 3/4" if a single layer of subfloor for laminate. Although, I always try to build my up to 1 1/4" kind of regardless of flooring type. 1/2" OSB is really not sufficient as a stand alone subfloor.
 
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Old 03-25-15, 02:29 PM
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What thickness was it?
T & G?
Was glue used on the floor joist?
Did they use ring shanked nails.
Was it really OSB or was it Advantec?
 
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Old 03-25-15, 04:24 PM
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It was OSB and was 3/4". No glue was used.No shanked nails.Need to know if we should pull up this osb and put down plywood?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 06:20 AM
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Get a long straight edge and lay it across the seams of the OSB. If there is "humps" near the edges then, yes, it received too much rain water during the initial build. If swelling is found, then replacement at this time would be recommended.
 
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Old 03-26-15, 06:39 AM
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If osb has no humps it would be OK to screw this down good and put flooring on it? Or should I put a layer of plywood on top of this?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 06:51 AM
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The fact that you said that the nails had worked themselves loose tells me that you have a very bouncy floor. It is most likely overspanned for the size lumber used for the joists. Beefing this up will give you a stronger floor. Screws will stop some of the noise, but do nothing for the bounce. Adding an additional layer of ply could stiffen but we need more information.

What is the size, spacing and unsupported span of the floor joists you currently have? Is there any form of blocking in between joists? or were they removed for the radiant heat lines?

Pictures also help the community answer your questions. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...rt-images.html
 
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Old 03-26-15, 07:28 AM
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Floor is 24 feet with beam in middle.So span is 12 feet and no blocking between joists.
 
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Old 03-26-15, 11:21 AM
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What is the size, spacing and unsupported span of the floor joists
Thanks for the unsupported span at 12', need the rest of the puzzle.

What is the length of the triple girder between support piers?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 11:39 AM
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6 poles with approximately 8 ft. Between them
 
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Old 03-26-15, 02:55 PM
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Sorry Fracman58, I confused with the last question, and again, thank you for the additional information. But size and spacing is for the joists of your flooring. Are they 2x8's, 2x10's and are they 16" on center, 19" on center or 24" on center?

Looking at the picture, I think at the very least, you should plan on including some solid blocking between the joists. Blocking helps by to tie adjacent joists together so 3 joists are locked supporting your steps instead of individual ones acting independent of each other. The solid blocking should be of the same width as the joists and notched to allow for your PEX piping. You can stagger them so that you can nail through the joists themselves instead of having to toenail. They will be stronger. I think you will notice a big and immediate difference.
 
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Old 03-26-15, 03:07 PM
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Joists are 2×10 and 16" on center. If I put blocking in can i use 2x8's so I don't have to notch out for my pe× tubing? Also,do you think the osb floor where all nails came loose can be anchored down and used for the flooring? Or should it be replaced?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 03:12 PM
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Joists are 2×10 and 16" on center. If I put blocking in can i use 2x8's so I don't have to notch out for my pe× tubing? Also,do you think the osb floor where all nails came loose can be anchored down and used for the flooring? Or should it be replaced?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 03:29 PM
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Notching 2x10's will give you the added benefit of the bracing also supporting the OSB which is a good thing. I think that you can use 2" deck screws and secure the OSB down that you currently have. Remove any offending nails and check from below for any nails that missed the target and are riding side saddle to the joists. Add blocking and then give your subfloor a test. Run, walk, bounce and stammer about and see how it acts before you overlay it with your final flooring. Unless it is showing signs of deterioration, and is swelled, I think it is fine to re-use. Use a crows foot or cats paw pry bar to remove the nails from above.
 
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Old 03-26-15, 04:02 PM
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Do you think we should put a thin layer of plywood or anything on top of the osb before flooring?
 
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Old 03-26-15, 05:04 PM
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The thinner layers do nothing as far as structural support so I don't think it will be of any benefit in your situation.
 
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Old 03-26-15, 05:13 PM
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Okay.I thank you very much for all your help! Appreciate it.😊
 
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Old 03-26-15, 07:59 PM
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Me again.Was told by a couple others to put 1/2" plywood over osb or tear everything up and replace with 3/4" tounge and groove plywood.I really don't want to tear up with all the radiant heat to remove.Do you think 1/2" plywood on top of osb would benefit me?
 
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Old 03-27-15, 04:29 AM
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Couple of points, I was under the impression that you are putting laminate or other floating floor back in. If it is tile or something else, then the conversation may turn.

That said, and as previously mentioned, I like my floors to be 1 1/4" thick which would imply another layer of 1/2" added. However, I think that it would not benefit your radiant heating situation by adding another layer of a poor conductor. I fear that it will render your radiant heat useless if you go too thick. Also, proper procedures for adding additional layers is to intentionally miss the floor joists and nail to the 3/4" in the field. This allows the two different types and thicknesses of materials to expand and contract at different rates and not fight the joists system during that expansion. Intentionally missing the joists opens up the possibility of piercing your radiant heat tubing with one of the screws. You may ask "why not use shorter screws?" - to which I would say that I don't have the confidence in the holding power of the OSB than if it was 3/4" plywood down in the first place. Plus sometimes the screws have a nasty habit of biting and pulling themselves through and sinking lower than you wanted to in the wood itself, so shorter doesn't necessarily mean saver for your PEX piping.

On that same note, you need to take careful measurements so that you don't pierce the pipes when you screw down along the center of the beam. Might be wise to screw through the existing nail holes to be safe.
 
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Old 03-27-15, 06:04 AM
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Wouldn't screwing the 1/2 layer plywood into the osb and not the joist cause more movement and more creaking?
 
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Old 03-27-15, 01:02 PM
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No, you lock the 3/4" strongly to the joists with deck screws. The 1/2" is then strongly attached to the 3/4" with screws every 6" to basically make it one with the 3/4". By overlapping the panels and not having any edges line up, you actually make a stronger floor. Similar to how you don't line up any seams when you put down your hardwood, you end up with a stronger end product. You should get no squeaks from that sandwich. However, again, you have a lot of calculating to do if you are not to puncture a radiant heat line.
 
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Old 03-28-15, 03:31 AM
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Thank you. Another big question is,is it necessary to always run humidifier in my basement with radiant heat? If so,what is a good one?
 
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Old 03-28-15, 04:08 AM
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fracman58, you may be better off starting a new thread on your humidifier question either in the basement or the heating forums. I'm not sure if those guys frequent the flooring forum. Be sure to show them the same pictures to get them started.
 
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Old 04-16-15, 02:03 PM
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We want to put down 1/2" plywood on top of the 3/4" osb for stiffness.But if we use the 1/2" plywood we have to go with thinner laminate due to spacing on dishwasher and fridge.Would like to go with thicker 12 mm laminate but would only be able to use 1/4" plywood but.Would the 1/4" plywood with thicker flooring be the same as th1/2" plywood with thinner flooring for stiffness?
 
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Old 04-16-15, 03:32 PM
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1/4" will do nothing for stiffness. Thickness should not be effected by the refrigerator or the dishwasher. While laminate is not recommended for the kitchen area, if you do, your issue is getting the dishwasher out should there be an issue down the road. You can remove the adjustable legs and stilt the washer on blocks. That will gain you an additional 1/4" of space to remove the unit if needed someday.
 
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Old 04-16-15, 05:56 PM
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Refrigerator is built in also.We want flooring under fridge and dishwasher.
 
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