Gluing and/or nailing solid hardwood

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  #1  
Old 06-25-16, 11:07 PM
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Gluing and/or nailing solid hardwood

I'm planning to lay 3/4" solid hardwood (hickory or maple) from LL.

I was going to use polyurethane glue

I went to LL and the guy told me I shouldn't use glue, that it will void warranty on these products, because the instructions call for nailing installation.

So to all you knowledgeable good people here, 2 questions:

1. Is it true that solid hardwood should not be installed on glue if the instructions don't mention glue and only mention nailed installation?
2. Is it true that AdvanTech OSB (an extra layer on top of subfloor) is bad, doesn't hold nails well, doesn't bond to glue, and so plywood is the only underlayment I should use?
3. Should I think about putting cork under that wood, or is 1/2" plywood(+ perhaps water barrier?) underlayment + 3/4" solid hardwood enough to absorb the sound?

There's some contradictory information (or rather opinions) about all this out there, it's kinda hard to find anything definitive...

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-26-16, 03:29 AM
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1) I would not glue 3/4" hardwood when a more viable method of attachment is available (staples/cleats)
2) What is your subflooring now? How thick and what is your joist size and spanning and spacing? Advantech is fine for hardwood flooring. You do not, however want to install it on particle board subflooring.
3) Cork would be a more expensive overkill. Use 15# roofing felt as an underlayment. Hardwood flooring will not absorb sound. Only a decoupling of the floor from the area below will help in sound proofing.

Hang in there as others will chime in with more information.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 03:51 AM
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Here is more information than you could ever need to know regarding wood flooring installation.

http://tinytimbers.com/pdf/nwfa-install-guidelines.pdf

Every floor comes with a recommended installation procedure - It can be nailed, floated, glued or clicklock. If it is not specifically called out, it is not a preferred method of installation.

Regarding subfloor underlayment guidelines state that a minimum 5/8" plywood or 3/4" OSB (Advantech) for nail down applications. This for nail holding power and are minimums. I would also use a minimum 2" cleat of staple.

15# felt paper is all I use.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 04:40 AM
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Consider using Aquabar B for your vapor retarder in place of the Felt. Also, unless it is a budget issue, be cautious about what you buy from LL. Are you buying prefinished or unfinished flooring? Check out reviews for the manufacturer's products you are considering. Wood may be wood but milling qualities and finishing vary.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 06:16 PM
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So far I was going to buy prefinished domestic select maple or natural hickory 3/4"x3" Bellawood for $5/sqft. 3" because I read that 5" is too wide and prone to warping, and 2" is too narrow for my taste (the look is dated). The reviews on LL and Bellawood sites are glowing, obviously, and according to much of the rest of the Internet it's a crapshot.

LL is a huge company and will naturally attract a lot of bad reviews due to selection bias (you don't speak up unless you have a problem), and it's very hard to judge whether they are more or less risky supplier/importer than others... Any thoughts on where to find balanced reviews? Also, any thoughts on a better supplier of 3/4" hardwood for $5/sqft? BD seems to be a Canadian company, which makes it riskier proposition still, everyone hates big box stores, and everything else is very expensive without necessarily being less risky. Any pointers? I'm in Los Angeles, CA.

I actually started with planning to put cheap laminate in place of my old carpet in a rental unit, found out lots of problems with it and that it's not as cheap as it sounds (I thought it'd be $1-$1.5, but good laminate is like $2.5, plus installation, and it still feels cheap). Then I was going to go with strand bamboo. It's very tough, looks great, feels pretty good... Good bamboo costs as much as 3/4" domestic hardwood, and is much riskier because people have been laying hardwood floors for a century (-ies?) and stranded bamboo showed up, like, yesterday. It may warp or outgas seemingly without reason. So... here I am having no clue how to choose the hardwood

And thanks, I guess I'll start reading up on the vapor barriers now. My job is on the 2nd floor, so I thought vapor barrier doesn't matter much. I wasn't even sure I must have it on 2nd floor, but probably I should.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 06:24 PM
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@czizzi: Thanks for the link, looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me
@chandler: Thanks for the reply, I'm still not sure about my subflooring, I'm going to find out in a few weeks. I thought cork is the ultimate soundproofing material, but I guess it was from when I was researching laminate, looks like I need to research it all over again w.r.t. solid wood. Are there any soundproofing ultimate guides, blogs, etc. that you would recommend to learn about the basics?
 
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Old 06-26-16, 07:37 PM
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@chandler:
Why are you saying staples/cleats are more viable than gluing?
Engineered wood is usually glued down. The glue is waterless, so it's also a water barrier, and bonds along the whole area of the plank to the plywood; why is nailing better?
 
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Old 06-26-16, 08:10 PM
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Chances of your subfloor being perfectly flat for a glue down are slim. Slight dips and hollows will result in voids where the glued hardwood does not contact the subfloor. Mechanical fasteners insure contact and fastening is secure and permanent.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 08:15 PM
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Good luck with any LL flooring. I won't install any of their products. They have a history of shipping a lot of shorts and defective products. They don't honor their warranty very well either.
 
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Old 06-26-16, 08:58 PM
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@sam floor: what supplier would you recommend instead?
I'm planning to buy, acclimate, lay down the first 100 sqft and hope I can return or exchange if it's bad... Can't think of better hedging strategy.

@czizzi: So even 1/2" or 3/4" plywood or OSB won't make it straight enough? Bellawood mandates no more than 1/8" in 6 ft. The subfloor may easily have 3/8" or 1/2" dimples. The Bellawood instructions call for using 30# black roofing paper and no cement. I think a relatively elastic non-cement leveling compound should work better, because I can make it straight with a trowel. I'm told they use a mix of wood chips and glue as this compound in Europe (essentially liquid OSB) for leveling, not sure what to use here in the US.

UPDATE: This is essentially the process I'm planning, is it wrong? https://youtu.be/7l6ts1YwnfU
I just found it right now. Perhaps my subfloors are worse than this guy's though, I'll find out in a few weeks.
 
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Old 06-27-16, 03:18 AM
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He failed to show a good straight edge view of his finished product. In essence he still has the dips telegraphed to the top layer. I don't see that anything changed except he has another layer on top.
 
  #12  
Old 06-27-16, 04:03 AM
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Generally the flooring that comes from Canadian mills is top notch as far as milling is concerned. Check out Muskoka. They advertise as having the smallest bevel in the industry which is nice unless you like a big groove between your floor boards. Muskoka is owned by the same parent company that owns the Mirage line. Also, wood grown in Canada is supposed to be more stable due to it being slower growing in the colder climate. A good book on the subject was written by Charles Peterson....he does an excellent job of explaining the whys as well as the how to.
 
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Old 06-27-16, 06:54 AM
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JIMMIEM, said it best. LL buys a lot of bad stuff made in China. They got caught bringing in stuff illegally that didn't meet safety standards either. Much of their stuff is shorts, boards too short to stagger the joints.
 
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Old 06-27-16, 02:21 PM
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I did a LL installation for a client once where one box was not only "shorts", but were all "starters". All had stickers on them. What happened to quality control that day??
 
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