Tools needed to install a hardwood floor.

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  #81  
Old 09-05-16, 12:27 PM
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Use a good blade when you cut the door jamb and door trim....you want a clean cut here so it will look good.
 
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  #82  
Old 09-05-16, 12:36 PM
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I got angles for the door jamb by using math and a tape measure and a square. They might not be 100% exact because the measuring tools weren't 100% exact (the tape measure for instance), but when you walk into the bedroom, the wall to the right, the angle from that wall to the door is 118.889245032769 degrees, so roughly 119 degrees. When you walk into the room, the wall that's against the hallway...the angle between that wall and the door is 151.111 degrees, so, roughly 151 degrees.

Just so I'm certain where to cut the floorboards, for the doorway, I want to cut to the red line, right? Or do I want to cut to the yellow?

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  #83  
Old 09-05-16, 03:48 PM
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If you're going to have a transition in the doorway which means the flooring won't floe from the room into the hallway you cut to a little beyond the red line into the hall so you'll have a little of the new plywood subfloor in the hall past the doorway transition.
 
  #84  
Old 09-05-16, 04:21 PM
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Something like this....done on the diagonal.
 
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  #85  
Old 09-05-16, 06:04 PM
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JIMMIEM,

If it was you, would you just go all the way out into the hallway? If I had more cash and didn't need the new furnace and a central air conditioning unit and gas lines, I'd do the hallway at the same time. I got a feeling once the baby comes, we're going to have a heck of a lot less money than what we have now. Taxes here are pretty high. We're paying around 450$ for the mortgage but 425$ a month for the Escrow. The homeowner's insurance was paid for a year in the closing costs, so next year, the Escrow will be even more higher.

I'm making good progress now. I have about half of the old subfloor torn up. The oscillating multitool is a life saver! I couldn't imagine doing this job without one. It does take a good while to cut through the boards up against the wall though with it.

Some of the boards are wet, some of the boards are rotten. I'm glad they're coming out. If I had a chance to do it over again, I'd definitely remove them. There's one wall that has maybe 1/4 to a 1/2 piece of board. It's a long wall as well. Not sure how I'm going to remove that one yet. I'll take pictures once I get the old subfloor out and maybe you could help me figure out how to lay the plywood. I've been reading the book and I got a good idea, I just want to make sure it's right. I still haven't bought it yet but either tomorrow or Wednesday, I'll have access to a truck and I'll purchase them then. I was thinking I'd need 6 4x8 sheets. Do you think that sounds about right?
 
  #86  
Old 09-05-16, 06:42 PM
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If you want to put in a transition like in the picture I have posted then I wouldn't go into the hallway. I put down just enough plywood to clear the bedroom door and have room to nail the transition into the plywood subfloor. Do a quick calculation to see how many sheets you will need....you may have to cut some to fit so make sure you have enough....get a few extra...you will eventually use them as you continue replacing the existing flooring.
 
  #87  
Old 09-07-16, 01:40 PM
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Okay, I got most of the old subfloor up, now comes the hard part. The door section. I cut the tile up by the door frame like we discussed, but am I supposed to cut the subfloor up at the same place? Thanks for all the help!
 
  #88  
Old 09-07-16, 03:03 PM
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Can you post a picture so we can see exactly where you're at?
 
  #89  
Old 09-08-16, 08:11 PM
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Yes, sorry for the delay in response. Tomorrow, when it becomes daylight, I'll post a picture. Kinda took the day off today and watched a bunch of Star Trek, celebrating their 50th anniversary and everything.
 
  #90  
Old 09-11-16, 12:20 PM
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I'm back with more pictures. I've removed all the old subfloor boards except for two. These two, I'm not sure how to remove. They run under the door frame. I was hoping someone could tell me the best way to remove them.

Here's the pictures of those two boards.
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Once they're removed, I was thinking of adding a joist along the wall by the hallway. That way, I can attach the new subfloor more easily like. Here's where I'm talking about:

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So, what do you guys think? Even though there's floorboards there, they're just so I can more easily walk around the room. All but the two in the first two pictures are loose and can come out whenever.
 
  #91  
Old 09-11-16, 12:48 PM
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Can you tell if the floor boards are supporting the door frame?
 
  #92  
Old 09-11-16, 01:31 PM
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How would I tell JIMMIEM?
 
  #93  
Old 09-11-16, 01:39 PM
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I know when I look under the those two floor boards, there's nothing under them. I'm not sure if the door frame is some how attached to studs on the wall or what.
 
  #94  
Old 09-11-16, 02:41 PM
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I was thinking the door frame is nailed to the wall. If so, I was thinking for the subfloor board on the left of the door frame, I could cut it flush with the ones that I cut out in the hallway. You know, the ones inside the door frame area. Then I could slide it out under. For the other one, the one in the right, it might not be too hard to remove. I could probably carefully cut it with the oscillating tool.

Is this how I should proceed?
 
  #95  
Old 09-11-16, 03:30 PM
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Door framing is nailed to wall studs. Subfloor lays on joists. Wall framing lays on subfloor. If you look under the drywall do you see that there is a 2 X 4 that the wall studs stand on? Do you see subfloor boards under the 2 X 4? These same floor boards go under the door framing and the 2 X 4 that the door framing is attached to. You cut the subfloor boards off flush with the wall? They will need to be supported at the cut ends. The new plywood subfloor will need to abut these cut off floor boards and need support under the edge.
 
  #96  
Old 09-11-16, 04:13 PM
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I got the subfloor removed! I did cut the subfloor boards flush with the wall. I was going to add a joist there to support the wall and give me something to attach the new subfloor to. All walls are standing nice and sturdy.

I looked under the drywall and the wall against the hallway does not have that 2x4. That 2x4 is called a sole plate or sill plate, right? It's just laying on the old subfloor. There's a joist very close to it, so I felt it was okay to cut those boards there. I cannot attach the new subfloor to that joist there because it'd be in the middle of the wall.

Tuesday, I have a ride to go grab the plywood. Still not certain how many pieces I need or how to lay them out exactly. I was watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZspmzSb194

And I have the book as well to use as a reference. I know the boards have to run opposite the joists. But do I put the first piece in the middle of the room, kinda like this?

Name:  plywood layout.jpg
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  #97  
Old 09-11-16, 04:22 PM
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It is the sole plate. The sill plate rests on the top of a foundation wall. I would lay the first piece of plywood in a corner. Slide it to the left in your drawing. The seams should be staggered.
Figure out how many square feet you have to cover. Each sheet should cover 32 square feet. Buy extra....you will eventually use it as you do the rest of the house.
 
  #98  
Old 09-11-16, 04:33 PM
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132 square foot. So, 4.125 sheets of plywood. Does 6 sound like a good number?

So, more like this?

Name:  plywood layout.jpg
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If I have it in the lower corner like that though, it'd be harder to stagger them, right? Would it better to put it on that wall in this picture but centered against that wall?

Or, just when I go to put a piece above that one piece, cut it in half or something so it's staggered?
 
  #99  
Old 09-11-16, 05:28 PM
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What's the length of the room perpendicular to the joists?
 
  #100  
Old 09-11-16, 06:24 PM
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Would it be 9' 1/4" or 8' 7"? Here's a picture with a joist and the measurements. I hope it's easy to read for you.

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  #101  
Old 09-11-16, 06:27 PM
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If we pretend there's no chimney or vent attached to the chimney and I measure the opposite way the joists run, I get 10 foot 9 1/2 inches.
 
  #102  
Old 09-11-16, 07:14 PM
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What is the joist spacing? The 4 foot end of the each piece of plywood has to land on a joist. Leave 1/8" between abutting 4 foot ends. Cut the plywood so that butt joints are staggered on the joists.
 
  #103  
Old 09-11-16, 07:29 PM
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16 on center for most of them. Some are closer to 11 or 12.

Where's a good place to purchase 2x8, rough cuts or whatever they call them, the ones that actually measure 2x8. Also, what type of wood / lumber would I want for the joists?
 
  #104  
Old 09-11-16, 07:36 PM
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Just want to make sure I got this right, but in the end, it should look something like this, right? The diagram is just a crude drawing, I didn't measure anything here, just using it as an example.

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Is this right?

The joists aren't to scale and at the top there, I plan on blocking the joists.
 
  #105  
Old 09-12-16, 03:37 AM
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That's the idea. Years ago the actual dimension of lumber was the same as its nominal dimension. Check with lumber yards to see if they have rough dimension 2 X 8's that actually measure 2 X 8. If you're just going to be attaching these to existing joists to widen them to support your subfloor you can use a regular 2 X 8 but if these are just short lengths you can use a 2 X 6 or even a 2 X 4.
 
  #106  
Old 09-12-16, 08:21 AM
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I'm a bit worried about these joists that I need to add. I'm questioning whether or not I should use 2x8's for the new joists. This is how I planned on adding a new joist. Because the room has that angled corner where the door is, I thought I could do something like this. The solid black area is where the joist would be added....

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Because of the angled corner, I can't just run a joist the whole length of the room. I was thinking of cutting one end at an angle and taking another board and cutting it at an angle and then attaching those two pieces...making something like in the picture there....and then attaching the end to the other joist, if that makes sense.

My fear with these 2x8's are they're going to weigh a lot and when I lay them on the lathe and plaster before screwing them in, it's just going to fall right through the floor...if I could use something smaller, like 2x6's or something, I could take a 2" board and block the joist some how at the bottom, so the new joist lays on this smaller board....so the joist doesn't fall threw. Then I could screw it into whatever it needs to be screwed into.

There's a name for screwing screws at an angle, but I can't remember it. I can't think of any other ways to attach the blocks or joists unless I screw the screw at an angle to the joist or block or whatever.
 
  #107  
Old 09-12-16, 11:10 AM
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Also, once I figure out how to do the joist that I need to add (I'm almost thinking of just screwing the new joists to the joist under the wall a few times (ie, buy two 2x8's and attach both of them to the joists under the wall there to "extend" it a bit and make it wider)), I need to figure out how to level the joists.

I've heard the leveling is the hardest part. Not sure how to move ahead with that. Get a short level that goes across just two joists and plane away a lot of wood until they're all level or try to add wood in various thicknesses to each joist and try to make them level that way?

I could also just put the plywood down and then work on leveling it. I wonder if I should try some of that self leveling compound...I guess it's a bit hard to use if you haven't ever done it before. I see some people use asphalt tiles, the stuff they use on roofs, on top of the plywood to make it level. I didn't want to go that route though.

Also, when I pick up the plywood tomorrow, not sure how to let it acclimate. I cannot spread them across the entire floor, because there won't be enough room. Can I stack them on top of each other? Maybe separate them with a 2x4 or something? Or should I put a couple in the room at a time, laying flat, until they're moisture content is good, and then switch them out with other ones? Or can I just lay them up against a wall?
 
  #108  
Old 09-12-16, 11:35 AM
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The joists you add should be supported by the existing joists and not put any undue pressure on the ceiling below. Nailing at an angle is called toe nailing - not sure when screws are used.

If you have joists with high spots it's best to plane them down but if they're mostly low it's easier to just sister a joist along side the existing joist. Normally plywood doesn't need to be acclimated, that only comes into play with hardwood flooring.
 
  #109  
Old 09-12-16, 11:56 AM
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So I don't need to take measurements of the moisture content of the plywood and let it acclimate? I thought I remembered reading some wheres that if I didn't do this and the hardwood failed, the manufacturer could use this against me, saying the subfloor was to wet or something. I might not of read it at all though.

I like the idea of sistering the joists. Would it best to just sister a joist along side every joist, to make sure it's completely level?

I'm still not sure about adding the new joist in the corner. I don't use screws, but nails? And right now, if I cut it and make one piece that has the angle in it, like in the picture, I'll only have two places to attach it to the other joist. One for each end. Is that okay?

Should I be using 8d nails about 4" long or so for the toe nailing?

I'm reading the book again, and on page 50, they give some examples of how they do it. Install the plywood and then work on leveling it. Sanding in some areas, using cedar shims and more plywood in other areas....I think adding new joists to the old ones, that sister stuff, would be the easiest I'd bet. It'd probably cost more money, but the new ones that I add, I could just carefully make sure they're level before screwing them to the old joists. I could probably just use 2x4's for that, right?
 
  #110  
Old 09-12-16, 12:01 PM
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Screws are generally better than nails providing you use the right type of screw - some are too brittle and can break easy.

I'm a painter, not a carpenter but I've never heard of anyone acclimating building materials, just hardwood. Obviously if the plywood got left out in the rain you'd need to let it dry, especially before you covered it up with the finish flooring.
 
  #111  
Old 09-12-16, 12:13 PM
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I'm trying to verify my original statement. If I don't have to let it acclimate and if the moisture content of the plywood doesn't matter, than I can begin installation of the new subfloor tomorrow. I found this though:

In any case, the moisture content of the wood subfloor should be within 4 percentage points of properly acclimated solid strip flooring (within 2 percentage points of solid plank flooring). That is, if the properly acclimated strip flooring is at 9 percent, the subfloor should have no less than 5 percent moisture content and no more than 13 percent. Solid strip and plank flooring require a felt paper membrane between the floor and subfloor.

To me, that implies the moisture content of the subfloor is important. But is it important before the subfloor is installed or just before the hardwood is installed? Any carpentry experts out there that would know for certain?

I don't want to mess this up at all, because it's a lot of money for us. I want to make sure I do everything to the book.
 
  #112  
Old 09-12-16, 12:26 PM
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Use structural screws to attach the joists....easier to install than trying to drive nails. You have the info regarding the moisture content relationship between the plywood subfloor and the new hardwood flooring so the plywood moisture content is important and depending upon the moisture content of the plywood when you buy it you may have to let it acclimate. You can install the plywood then check it's moisture content and the new hardwood content and when both are within range you can install the hardwood. The angle attachment will be ok. Aquabar B is a good vapor retarder to use between the plywood subfloor and the new hardwood flooring.....nicer to work with than felt.
 
  #113  
Old 09-12-16, 02:16 PM
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Thanks for the info JIMMIEM. Does my idea of sistering every joist that's already there sound like a good idea to get a level subfloor? If so, I was thinking of buying a bunch of 12 foot long 2x6's, seasoned....not sure which type of 2x6's I would want though. After I do that, I'd attach the new plywood to the new level 2x6's...
 
  #114  
Old 09-12-16, 02:35 PM
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Not sure if I've missed something in your previous few posts but why do you want to sister all of them? When it's installed the plywood should be flat, within acceptable guidelines. The floor does not necessarily have to be 100% level unless it is way out of level e.g. things roll across the floor when you drop them. You can buy the 2 X 6's at a lumberyard or Lowes. If the flooring that you just removed was not too bouncy to walk on then sistering will be overkill...you will be adding almost an inch and a half of flooring on top of the joists. Just make sure you add joist and blocking to support the ends of the subfloor.....old boards and the new plywood.
 
  #115  
Old 09-12-16, 03:56 PM
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The current joists are not level at all. One of them is over 1/2" higher than the others. I took a level (it goes across 3 joists at a time, there's 9 total right now), and every three joists, the level is a 1/4" or so from the joist itself. I move the level over a joist, and it's off 1/4", all of them are like that, except for the weird one by the chimney, that's off by 1/2" or so. Someone tried chisling it down. It'd be hard to plane it because part of it is behind the chimney.

Do you think, minus the chimney one, this okay? I thought with sistering new 2x6's, I could just make sure all the new ones are level and have a level floor...you know, find the highest joist and just attach a new joist, to that exact level, and then make sure all the new sister joists are the same level as that first one. Is that not the way to go JIMMIEM?
 
  #116  
Old 09-12-16, 04:06 PM
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For the new joist (and if I decide to add new joists to the old joists), is this the correct type of wood that I'd want to buy?

Shop Top Choice Pressure Treated (Common: 2-in x 6-in x 12-ft; Actual: 1.5-in x 5.5-in x 12-ft) Lumber at Lowes.com

It says:

Top Choice Quality, #2 Prime lumber, virtually no wane which provides a high appearance

Not intended for ground contact

Treatment meets AWPA (American Wood Protection Association) standards

Limited lifetime warranty that protects against rot, decay, and wood ingesting insects

Easily painted or stained: recommended to wait a minimum of 60 days after installation

Hot-dipped galvanized or stainless-steel screws, fasteners and fittings are recommended

Safe for use around humans, pets, plants, and vegetables

Specie of product is Southern Yellow Pine

HT (Heat Treatment) on grade mark: wood is subjected to high temperature kilns before treatment



I don't have hot-dipped galvanized or stainless steel screws. I currently have: SPAX #14 4" unidrive, flat head, multi-material construction screws (silver in colour)
SPAX #10 2" unidrive, flat head, multi-material construction screws (gold in colour)
SPAX #10 3 1/2" unidrive, flat head, multi-material construction screws (silver in colour) The number #10's have a phillips bit included. The #14's I thought we might be able to use for the joists, but they'd be too long. Home Depot didn't have any 2 1/2" #8's.
 
  #117  
Old 09-12-16, 05:18 PM
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I went back up and measured the joists different this time. They're not as bad as I thought they were. Just the piece by the chimney is really messed up. Someone chopping it to heck and back. Because it's a block, I was thinking of trying to replace that. When I lay the level down on a joist length wise, instead of over a bunch of joists, they're not that bad at all, minus a dip. It's almost as if all of them have this one little dip in the same spot. Most of the joists that have this dip, it's only maybe 1/16th of an inch. One of them has it as bad as 3/16" or 1/4". I wonder if that had something really really heavy there or something. It's pretty much in the same spot on each joist.
 
  #118  
Old 09-12-16, 06:13 PM
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For the finishing nailer that we're purchasing, are these the correct nails that we'd want to purchase?

Shop Bostitch 1000-Count 1.5-in Finishing Pneumatic Nails at Lowes.com

Or should we purchase these nails that say DA style? Not sure what length to get for the finishing nails...

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Bostitch-100...Nails/50410116

Also, how many boxes should we get? Here's the finishing nailer we're purchasing:

Shop Bostitch Roundhead Finishing Pneumatic Nailer at Lowes.com

Thanks.
 
  #119  
Old 09-12-16, 06:33 PM
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You don't need pressure treated wood for this. Pressure treated is for outdoor use. You want to get a 15 gauge finish nailer. Use 2" finish nails for what you will be doing. The finishing nail guns have different angles so make sure you get the screws that are made to fit the gun. An angled nail gun will get into tighter spaces than a straight gun. If you will do sistering get Timberlok, GRK or SPAX construction grade structural screws.
If you just got the bad joist near the chimney leave it and chisel or plane it down. The small dimension differences you mention won't be a problem.
For this application use something bigger than a #8 screw. I wouln'd worry about a 1/16" dip....the construction adhesive will fill that gap.
 
  #120  
Old 09-13-16, 06:29 AM
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Okay,

That finish nailer I linked to is a 15 gauge. We also have the flooring nailer and the 16 gauge floor cleats.

What exactly is the finish nailer going to be used for with this project?

These are the nails I should buy then,

Shop STANLEY-BOSTITCH 4000-Count 2-in Finishing Pneumatic Nails at Lowes.com
right?

And this should be the wood that I purchase?

Shop Top Choice (Common: 2-in x 6-in x 12-ft; Actual: 1.5-in x 5.5-in x 12-ft) Lumber at Lowes.com
 

Last edited by Spork Schivago; 09-13-16 at 07:29 AM.
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