Need Assistance with Humidistat Wiring

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Old 09-07-10, 01:26 PM
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Need Assistance with Humidistat Wiring

Last November I was assisted by Jay11j with the install of a Vision Pro IAQ Thermostat on my Trane XL80 furnace, Trane 12SEER A/C and Honeywell HE365 Humidifier. Everything was working great and the "Frost Protection" mode of the IAQ kept my humidity perfect (no condensation on windows).

This summer I decided to replace my furnace with a more efficient one and chose the Trane XC95 which is the communicating model. The contractor told me he could use the IAQ thermostat on this system, however, to get the full benefit of the modulating furnace, I should replace the IAQ with the Trane TCONT900A Communicating thermostat, which I did. This new thermostat also has a feature the IAQ doesn't have and that is the ability to set the "continuous fan airflow by percentage to take advantage of the variable speed fan in this furnace. TRANE XL900 Series 7-day Communicating comfort control thermostats

The new thermostat does control my humidifier, however, I cannot use the "Frost Protection" mode of this new thermostat because there is no way to connect an outdoor temp sensor to the system as there is with the Vision Pro IAQ.

The contractor connected my humidifier installing a 110v outlet on the side of the furnace powered from the power box inside the furnace. They ran another apparent 110v line from the furnace power box to a small brown "switch" that has two connectors for the 110v in and then 3 other connectors with two wires running to the two yellow wires on the humidifier. This doesn't appear to be a 24v transformer, don't know if it's a switch or what.

The problem is that this new thermostat is a 3 wire hook up D=data, R=24 volt hot and B=24volt common. The contractor informed me there was no way to connect an outdoor temp sensor to the system because this "communicating system" has the outdoor temp sensor installed inside the new models of Communicating A/C outdoor units. Everything is controlled by the Thermostat via the Furnace through the "Data" connection from the compressor to the furnace. There are no direct connections to either the thermostat or the Furnace board for an outdoor temp sensor. This doesn't make a lot of sense that they would design it this way as I am sure there are a lot of people who have a furnace and don't even have A/C. How do they take advantage of the "Frost Protection" feature of the Trane Communicating thermostat if they cannot connect an outside temp sensor without buying a new A/C compressor? Is my contractor wrong on this?

Now after that long winded explanation, which I apologize for, my questions are:

Is there any way to connect a outdoor temp sensor to this system or do I need to add one of the new Humidistats like the Aprilaire #58 Buy Aprilaire #58 Humidistat | Aprilaire 58

or possibly the Honeywell IAQ Digital Humidistat since my humidifier is a Honeywell HE365? Buy Honeywell TrueIAQ Digital Humidistat, Dehumidistat, Fresh Air Control | Honeywell DG115EZIAQ

The Aprilaire #58 literature makes it appear the wiring would be simple, however, it indicates an A/B switch on the control that must be in a particular position for specific models of Aprilaire humidifiers or damage could occur. since I have a Honeywell Humidifier, this is confusing. Have read in forums that they fried them wiring them incorrectly.

In the case of the IAQ humidistat, I cannot determine from the literature if it can be wired directly to the furnace terminal board without going through the furnace thermostat which I cannot do as it is 3 terminal wiring as indicated above. Wiring this one appears even more confusing but it does have more features like indoor/outdoor temps, etc.

Once again I apologize for the length of my post and would appreciate any advice or suggestions you might provide. Colorado Winter is coming and I don't want to spend it adjusting the thermostat up and down daily to avoid the condensation.

Thanks, Depdad
 
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Old 09-08-10, 05:43 AM
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Welcome back, I will have to look into this tonight and will try to get back to you tonight or with in the next couple of days.
 
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Old 09-08-10, 10:46 AM
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Hi Jay, thanks for the quick reply. I came up with another idea I would like for you to ponder. I still have the Vision Pro IAQ therm replaced by the Trane TCONT 900 sitting in the garage cabinet gathering dust. Would it be possible to hook that up mounting the EIM by the furnace in the utility room and the humidistat on the wall downstairs, and use it only to control the humidifier. I don't know if it would try to interfere with the Trane therm running the system. As I said in previous post, the Trane therm connects via 3 wires to D=data, R=24vac, B/C=Common. I don't know if hooking IAQ vision pro to R, C, W, G on the furnace would cause the Vision pro to try to operate the furnace or if that could even happen since the D=Data terminal seems to control everything. Could the Vision Pro be left System= Off or, would the Vison Pro have to be set to Heat in order for the humidifier to run? Then, if vision pro was set to Heat, would it try to turn on the furnace conflicting with the Trane Therm?

Or Should I just go ahead and order a new True IAQ Humidistat and be done with it?

Just a thought. Be waiting for you advice.

Thanks,

Depdad
 
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Old 09-08-10, 09:41 PM
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Reading the manuals, I can't see why you can't use the outdoor sensors, the stat set up menu shows/talks about use of outdoor sensor.

Seeing the wire diagram, I see on the lower right side of the board on the furnace, there's TS2 and TS1 (Temp Sensor)

The manual don't tell me what is what. Try the sensor you have now to TS1 and then the stat set up menu #342 to 1.

If nothing shows on the screen, just -- then try TS2.
 
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Old 09-08-10, 11:25 PM
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Thanks for getting back to me. I found the TS1 and TS2 connections on the board and they are actually 2 pins on TS1 and 3 pins on TS2. However, I did some searching on this forum and found another person had the same problem last year and you were the one who tried to assist him. He tried your suggestion and got an error code. You then did further checking and found out what I had been told by my contractor was true, the outdoor temp sensor on these communicating furnaces is in the outdoor A/C compartment and can only transmit via the Data port to the thermostat. Thus you need to replace your compressor to get a temp sensor. Here is your post from that date if you want to review what transpired.

Jay11J
11-23-09, 07:10 PM
Ok, so far what I've been told, and I even looked it up.

It needs to pair up with the Comfort Link outdoor units. XL20i, and XL16i units. the outdoor units has the sensor built into it, and then commucata with the system inside.

Carrier is the same.

Did you get a new A/C?

Unless you think it would be possible to connect my old Vison Pro IAQ thermostat and use it as a Humidistat only, I think I will just go ahead and order the True IAQ Humidistat and be done with it.

I believe you indicated in one of your previous post that this can be wired directly to the furnace board without going through the thermostat, is that correct?

Thanks, Depdad
 
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Old 09-09-10, 06:21 AM
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Ok, thanks for looking into this further. I forgot about that post, and then I am on day #8 at work with a tired brain, and got one more to go!

Anyway, The TrueIAQ could work out for you. What are you planning on doing with the IAQ you got now?
 
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Old 09-09-10, 10:42 AM
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I can see how you would forget about the hundreds of posts you've made helping other folks. I just happened to stumble upon it. Sorry to hear you didn't get to have much of a Labor Day weekend.

I still can't believe Trane would not make an outdoor sensor that would plug in to one of the TS connectors on that board, but I guess they want you to buy a new A/C comp with your furnace.

Anyway, I will go ahead and order the True IAQ and just mount the humidistat on the other side utility room wall which is my lower level family room.

Could you confirm that I can just connect straight to the furnace board R=R, C=C, W=W and G=G with the two wires to the humidifier and two to sensor? Also, do I need "G" connection if I only want humidifier to run with call for heat?

As for the Vision Pro IAQ I used for 6 months before replacing my furnace rendering it useless, guess it will sit on a shelf in the garage.

Thank you,

Depdad
 
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Old 09-09-10, 04:45 PM
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I looked at the install manual for the XL20/16 units, and it only shows 2 wires to furnace D and B hook up, nothing goes to the TS.

For kicks, hook up the outdoor sensor you have to the two screw TS.

On your old IAQ, I may be willing to take it off your hands.
 
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Old 09-09-10, 06:23 PM
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The TS1 and TS2 connectors are not actually screws, they are pins sticking out from the circuitboard like there is a special plug that connects to them. TS1 is 3 pins and TS2 is 2 pins. I would have to find some connectors to slide onto the pins. Are you sure it won't hurt the furnace circuit board????
 
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Old 09-09-10, 06:31 PM
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Ok, not sure where you can find a "plug" to put over this pin.

I'll ask around to see if there's any updates on this. As of now, leave it be.
 
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Old 09-09-10, 06:45 PM
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I sent an email to Trane asking if they had any outdoor sensor that would connect to this system, but I doubt they will tell me anything. They only deal with HVAC folks and even then probably only with their dealers. Still don't understand how they could have a furnace and Thermostat designed with the Humidity control and Frost protection, without providing a way for those with no A/C or an older A/c to connect an outdoor temp sensor.

I went ahead and ordered the True IAQ Humidistat and that should solve my problem even though it will be somewhat of a jury rig having two two controls when I should be able to use the single Trane Thermostat.
 
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Old 09-09-10, 07:14 PM
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I found a couple wire connectors that will slip over the pins on the circuit pin and allow me to connect the outdoor temp sensor to the circuit board, just wondering if there is any posibility of damage to the board. What do you think?
 
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Old 09-09-10, 08:30 PM
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I am not sure what to say... If it was me, I'd see what Trane would say, and if no respond then take a meter.

Take a reading on the two probe to see if there's any power. (I'll take a reading on my IAQ when I am done with work tmrw night)
 
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Old 09-10-10, 07:06 PM
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Okay, I checked the two pin connector and got about 11.24 volts DC. On the 3 pin, I got the same reading on the two outside pins. I tried AC and the meter jumped around from 2 to 10 to 17, no set reading. Don't have a clue what this means. Does the outdoor temp sensor take voltage to operate or what?
 
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Old 09-12-10, 08:15 AM
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I took a reading on mine today..

With out the outdoor sensor, my reading was jumping all over. Put the sensor in place then I was reading 2 volts DC.

Your reading was higher, so I am not going to suggest you trying to hook up the sensor.

On your IAQ sitting on the shelf, does it has a set up for lock out on Vent (#400-3 or 4)? As I said before I may be willing to take it off your hands.
 
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Old 09-12-10, 09:56 AM
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Okay, I did get an email from Trane with a telephone number to call for tech support and will call this week but again don't think they will be able to get into those kind of details with a consumer. I should get my TrueIAQ Humidistat this week and hopefully that will resolve the problem.

As for my IAQ, it has the following settings:

0403=Vent level CFM
0404= Max Vent %level
0405=Vent Fan
0406= Vent in High Humidity
0430=Ventilation Lockout- 0=disabled, 1=lockout for high temps, 2=lockout for low temps, 3=lockout for high and low temps.
0431=Vent lockout high Temp , 100
0432=Vent lockout low Temp, -10

This is the model I have. If the link doesn't work the model is 9421C1002.Honeywell VisionPro IAQ (YTH9421C1002) Installation Instructions and Product Brochures
 
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Old 09-12-10, 12:06 PM
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I've been thinking of upgrading my IAQ, and give my IAQ to my parents since they don't have vent system tied to theirs like I do.. My vent takes in 100% air, and when it gets pretty cold I want to shut off the vent, right now I do it manualy.
 
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Old 09-13-10, 12:51 PM
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Does mine have the settings you need or is it a newer model you are looking for?

By the way, I will get my new TrueIAQ humidistat Thursday, and you never resonded to my question regarding the wiring. Since I am not wiring it into the thermostat, can I just go from furnace to humidistat R=R, C=C, W=W and G=G with the two wires to the humidifier and two to sensor? Also, do I need "G" connection if I only want the humidifier to run with call for heat?
Product
 
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Old 09-13-10, 03:40 PM
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It's a newer model with more settings that I don't have on my current IAQ.


Sorry I missed your question, I'll get back to you on Tuesday since I am off that day.
 
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Old 09-14-10, 06:34 PM
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Ok, thanks. Look for you tomorrow. Enjoy you day off!
 
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Old 09-15-10, 12:14 PM
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Sorry for not getting back to you yesterday, got pretty busy while the weather was nice!

The outlet that the humidifer is plugged into, is always hot, or is it hot when there's call for heat? (Another word, is the outlet wired to HUM on the furnace?)

Thing I am worried about, being that the 3-wires is being used, and not the W. G. ect on the board, not sure if the IAQ will work?

Call for heat, and take your meter on the furnace board W1, and C. See if we got power there.
 
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Old 09-15-10, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Sorry for not getting back to you yesterday, got pretty busy while the weather was nice!

The outlet that the humidifer is plugged into, is always hot, or is it hot when there's call for heat? (Another word, is the outlet wired to HUM on the furnace?)Okay, It's only hot when there's a call for heat. The outlet appears to be wired from the furnace's A/C connection box inside the furnace and is only hot on Call for heat.

Thing I am worried about, being that the 3-wires is being used, and not the W. G. ect on the board, not sure if the IAQ will work?I was worried about the same thing and already checked that a while back. Yes, I get 24 VAC across W and C. Actually on this furnace the "C" terminal is labeled "B/C"

Call for heat, and take your meter on the furnace board W1, and C. See if we got power there.
By the way, even though the thermostat is 3 wired C, R, and D for data, they wired my A/C Compressor to Y and C of the furnace board because it is an older model and not one that communicates through the D terminal. Thus, it appears all the furnace terminals do work.

Forgot to mention that in addition to the 110VAC from the Furnace box to the outlet for the humnidifier, there is a second 110 wire from the furnace box to a small brown "switch with 2 connectors for the 110 and 2 other wires which run to the humidifier's yellow wires. I assume this switch is what actually turns on the humidifier when the Trane Thermostat calls for the humidifier. I planned on disconnecting this wire to the humidifier and run a new wire from the IAQ to the yellow wires of the humidifier.
 

Last edited by Depdad; 09-15-10 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Used incorrect term
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Old 09-15-10, 05:58 PM
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Ok, leave the unit plugged into the outlet as you have now.

The two yellow wire from humidifier goes to the HUM on the TrueIAQ.

Then,

TrueIAQ-----Fur
R-------------R
C-------------B/C
W------------W1
G-------------G

Then sensor to sensor.

Set up menu.
10-1
15-2
20- up to you. (I'd set it to 45%)
25-0
30-0
 
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Old 09-15-10, 07:47 PM
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Ok, thank you. I'll let you know how it works out. Should get it tomorrow.
 
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Old 09-15-10, 07:48 PM
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Sounds good!

Off to bed I go, have to be up at 430am
 
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Old 09-16-10, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Sounds good!

Off to bed I go, have to be up at 430am
Well, I wired it up just as you advised and I cannot get the humidifier to come on. I set the humidity up to 80%, turned off the Frost Protection trying to get it to kick on but no luck.

Another thing I don't understand is that the IAQ shows the temp and humidity for inside and outside, but none of the other info the manual talks about on page 2&3 like the "Confort Settings: Feedback on Dry, Wet, Window Frost, etc. Don't know why, but it just shows the in and out temps and humidity.



I set the installer settings as you indicated, but humidifier would not come on. I removed the face of the IAQ and checked the voltage across the two Hum terminals and it is getting the 24 volts from the humidifier when the furnace is calling for heat and the 110vac outlet is hot for the humidifer. I also checked voltage across W and R and G and R on the IAQ and got 24vac. For some reason the IAQ is not calling for humidity by closing the two Hum contacts and powering the humidifier.

By the way, I did touch the two yellow wires together on the humidifier while the furnace was calling for heat and it kicked right on. So, it appears the IAQ is just not closing the contacts for some reason.

One more thing, on Page 10 of manual, WIRING, it talks about "G" terminal possibly needing an R8222 Isolation relay if "G" is not isolated through the Thermostat. What does this mean, and could this be causing a problem since I am not going through a Thermostat????

Desperate for some suggestions!!!! Thank you
 
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Old 09-17-10, 05:17 AM
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Does it come on in test mode?

I think I recalled someone tried doing it when it was still mild out, and the system will not come on till it's cold enough outside???
 
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Old 09-17-10, 09:25 AM
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Ok, I think you were right in the first place. My furnace sends everything through the "D" connection and the W & G are dead when the D connection is working with the TCONT900 thermostat. I misunderstood you when you asked me previously to check for voltage between W & C and G & C. I was checking W & R and G & R so obviously I got voltage. I rechecked W&C and G&C when furnace was calling for heat and got no voltage at all. Thus, the TrueIAQ is not getting any signal from the furnace at all other than the 24 volts from R&C and the outdoor temp/humidity sensor.

I also called Trane Tech support and she confirmed that there is now way to connect an outside temp sensor to the XC95 furnace. I asked about the TS1 and TS2 terminals and she said they were not for that purpose. She said she would contact my contractor who installed the furnace and they will contact the factory again together to ascertain if there is any possible way to connect a sensor and have my contractor get back with me.

Think it's time to sell all my new, useless thermostats and humidistats on Ebay or Craig's list and get out of the HVAC business.
 

Last edited by Depdad; 09-17-10 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 09-17-10, 04:47 PM
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Ok, put your pants back on...

We can make it work. just need to change a few things. But before we do that. If you remove power from R and C on TrueIAQ, leave it off for a while, and put it back on, will the display show the last settings?

I'll be willing to buy the IAQ off your hands.
 
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Old 09-18-10, 11:02 AM
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Sorry, just getting a bit frustrated. Yes, the manual says the "setup parameters will be stored infefinitely and the time setting will hold for 4 hours. I assume the indoor/outdoor temp and humidity readings will reset to current when it regains power. I turned off the power to the furnace and waited 5 minutes and the only thing that changed was the temp and humidity readings.

What's you suggestion???
 

Last edited by Depdad; 09-18-10 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 09-18-10, 12:02 PM
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I was thinking something else, but thought of another thing.

The outlet the humidifer plugged in, we could rewire that to the HUM wire in the junction box.

Then just wire R and C to R, W and C at TrueIAQ.

When the furnace is calling for heat, the outlet will power up, and the TrueIAQ will stay on all time.
 
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Old 09-18-10, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
I was thinking something else, but thought of another thing.

The outlet the humidifer plugged in, we could rewire that to the HUM wire in the junction box.

Then just wire R and C to R, W and C at TrueIAQ.

When the furnace is calling for heat, the outlet will power up, and the TrueIAQ will stay on all time.
Sorry you lost me. I think the outlet the hum is plugged into is wire to the junction box as it is only 110 when heat is on is already connected to HUM. The way the contractor wired the humidifier yellow wires is what appears to be another 110 wire from inside the furnace junction box to what appears to be a small brown switch box that then has the two wires going to the yellow wires on the humidifer. That little box is what apparently completes the circuit and turns on the humidifer when the Trane Thermostat calls for humidity.
Sorry, but I didn't understand your wiring suggestions above for furnace to IAQ???
 
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Old 09-18-10, 12:59 PM
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Ok, I looked at the wiring diagram and think I understand what you are saying. I wire R & C from the furnace to IAQ and then just jumper from either R or C to W on the IAQ and it will think the furnace is always calling for heat. Now, does it matter whether I jumper from R or C to W on the IAQ or is it 24vac either way????

As I said, the 110 outlet is already wired to the junction box and hot when heat is called for so that should not be a problem.
 
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Old 09-18-10, 06:04 PM
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Jumper wire from R to W that way it "sees" power to W thinking the heat is being called for.

As long the outlet is wired to HUM from the board, we are set.
 
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Old 09-18-10, 08:12 PM
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Ok, thanks I will try that in the morning.
 
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Old 09-19-10, 12:46 PM
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Well, back to the drawing board. Before I added the jumper I checked my 110 outlet for the humidifier and found that it became hot when the "Fan" is energized. That means it would be able to turn on the humidifer even when just the fan is running and/or even when the A/C was running.

I opened up the furnace junction box and found a scrambled mess of wires. It appears there are the two coming in for 110 from the switch box, then there is a bundle of 6 wires coming in from the furnace circuit board, 3 white and 3 black. Then the contractor wired the outlet for the humidifer to a black and white from the bundle going to the furnace circuit board. Another piece of romex line connects from the two other black and white wires in the junction box to the small switch that then has the two wires running over to the humidifer yellow wires to close that circuit.

I assume the outlet is connected to run with the fan, not the heat circuit. I have no idea how I would change that as there are no terminals marked Hum or anything similar.

Got any more ideas??
 
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Old 09-19-10, 04:11 PM
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I checked the furnace wiring diagram and apparently the outlet is wired to the Hum terminals on the circuit board. I traced the wires on the diagram from the junction box to the circuit box and they are labeled HUM. Only thing is the outlet box is hot even with just "Fan" and does not need a call for heat.
 
  #38  
Old 09-19-10, 06:27 PM
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Ok, odd that HUM is powered up when the fan is ON. Is the HUM wire going to HUM on the board?

The EAC should power up anytime when the fan is on.

Check the EAC and see what reading you are having.
 
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Old 09-19-10, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Ok, odd that HUM is powered up when the fan is ON. Is the HUM wire going to HUM on the board?

The EAC should power up anytime when the fan is on.

Check the EAC and see what reading you are having.
I'll check that tomorrow. It will be difficult to follow that wire from the junction box to the circuit board as there is a bundle of 3 blacks and three whites running from the junction box to the board, but I'll give it a shot.

I do not have the EAC installed so as you said, maybe they wired the outlet box to the EAC wire instead of the Hum Wire.
 
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Old 09-19-10, 08:07 PM
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On my board there HUM and EAC. Maybe the wired marked HUM was put on the wrong spot (EAC).

Look at the board and see what you got. Let me know what you find tmrw.
 
 

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