Emergency Heat won't work after Installing VisionPro IAQ


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Old 02-26-11, 04:37 PM
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Emergency Heat won't work after Installing VisionPro IAQ

I just replaced a Honeywell programmable with the VisionPro IAQ with EIM so I could install a whole house humidifier with humidity control on the thermostat.

My system consists of:
-Lennox Propane Furnace for Emergency Heat
-American Standard Heat Pump/Air Cond (basic 12 Seer - assuming 1 stage)
-TZ-4 Totalzone - to control 2 zones (the 2nd thermostat is a typical Honeywell programmable and is in an upstairs area)
-No "Heat strips" for aux heat

Everything is working fine, except I can't get the VisionPro to turn on the emergency heat. The 2nd zone thermostat can, and the TZ-4 switch on the control board can, but not the new thermostat. I checked and the L wire has 10V on it when I put the VisionPro on Emergency heat. I think it should be 24V to activate the Emergency Heat.

I ran the 3 wire system from the new thermostat to the EIM, and double-checked the wiring. All good connections.

Then I ran 8 wires from the EIM to the zone 1 on the TZ-4 control board as follows:

EIM Color Zone 1 on TZ-4
O/B Orange O/B
Aux White W1/E
Aux2 Black W2
Y Yellow Y1
G Green G
L Brown L
C Blue C
R Red R

RC and RH are jumpered on the EIM
Y2 is not used

The VisionPro is programmed as follows
172 = 2 Heat Pump
173 = 0 (not sure what this one is)
174 = 1 Cool/comp stages
176 = 2 No. of conv heat or heat pump aux stages
190 = 0 reversing valve is energized in cooling
200 = 1 fossil fuel backup heat
210 = 1 Ext fossil fuel kit controls back-up heat

I think the problem is the thermostat/EIM is not sending a 24V signal to the L wire terminal on the TZ-4. But, I can't figure out a way to get it to do this. I may have the programming wrong, or I may have the black and white wires wrong (already tried reversing them and nothing changed)

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Jay
 
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Old 02-26-11, 04:55 PM
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un hook L .... Not needed. It is to show the HP is having trouble..... Im not @ home ill get back to you when i get home tonight. What is actually acting as you fossil fuel kit?
 
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Old 02-26-11, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for your quick reply. I just unhooked the L as advised. I'll leave it unhooked.

I also tried the Emergency heat again and the VisionPro does not activate it. Forgot to mention that when I put the setting on Emergency Heat at the thermostat, the heat pump comes on. I don't get the red LED light in the upper right hand corner either.

I'm not really sure what an external fossil fuel kit is, but I'll let you know what I know. The Lennox gas furnace (year installed 2002) has a control board on it and an external temperature sensor. I just assumed this was the fossil fuel kit. Not sure.

I did try programming the VisionPro with and without the the external fossil fuel, setting 210, tried both the 0 and the 1 position, but it did not help.

Thanks again, and looking forward to your feed-back whenever it is convenient for you.
 
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Old 02-26-11, 07:20 PM
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172 = 2
173 = 0
174 = 1
176 = 2
180 = 0
190 = 0
200 = 1
210 = 1
220 = 3
240 = ? NEED MORE INFO
250 = ? NEED MORE INFO
345 = ? NEED INFO ON OUTDOOR SENSOR


really I need more info on your system before I can go any further, outdoor sensor? efficiency of furnace?
 
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Old 02-27-11, 05:24 AM
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Good Morning,

240 = 3
250 = 3
342 = 1
345 = not shown because I chose fossil fuel kit controls the conversion temp

I do have an outdoor sensor hooked up to the EIM. But I'm using the "external fossil fuel kit" (I think) to control the temperature that the heat pump shuts off and the gas furnace turns on. It also has an outdoor sensor. The TZ-4 has a dial on it to set the outdoor conversion temp. It hasn't been real cold in Charlotte lately so it hasn't called for emergency heat and I dont't know if that is working. My real issue now is when I turn the VisionPro to emergency heat, the heat pump stays on (and no red light) on the thermostat.

the efficiency of the furnance is 90% and it has a secondary heat exchanger.

Thanks for looking into this

Jay
 
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Old 02-27-11, 06:44 AM
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this may be a problem with your zoning, I'm not familiar with it, but it may have a aux lockout temp. I thought you said the other stats would work for em heat. I'm not overly concerned about the red light, as mine doesn't come on in em heat mode, don't know why, don't care either, its just a light. You have it wired properly from what I see. the tz-4 is acting as your fossil fuel kit. A thought just occurred, what zone has priority, if one does over another?

Set other stats to off, turn IAQ to em heat and turn temp up to call for heat. Check for 24v between W1/E and C on the EIM. what are your findings?
 
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Old 02-27-11, 07:31 AM
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Thanks.

I have 24V at W1/E at your conditions above.
Interestly it is 10V at L

Then when I switch the TZ-4 control board to Emergency heat (physical switch on the board), L goes to 24V and the furnace comes on.

The 2nd zone thermostat (a regular honeywell programmable) will also kick the furnace on with the Emergency heat setting.

It is only the 1st zone, the visionpro IAQ that I can't get it to come on.
 
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Old 02-27-11, 11:03 AM
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i believe its your zone board, as you have the correct output from the EIM
 
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Old 02-27-11, 12:38 PM
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Thanks hvactechfw for your help so far.


Jay11J or anyone else, do you have any suggestions?
 
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Old 02-27-11, 05:21 PM
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Are you using the zone control as your duel fuel set up, or do you have another control doing this?

If you are using the zone control, what are the all the dip switch setting set to?
 
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Old 02-28-11, 06:21 AM
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Thanks. I'll get the DIP switch settings tonight (I'm at work now). The zone board is controlling when the conversion happens to furnace by the outdoor temp sensor. The lennox furnace has another control board for the furnace (as you probably already know). I'm just trying to include everything that may be pertinent.

As another note, my old honeywell thermostat (was installed in 2009 and is programmable) worked fine with the zone board. The only change was installing the visionpro IAQ with the EIM. Now I don't have the emergency heat control from the visionpro.

Does the L connection at the zone board at 10V versus 24V have any meaning at all to this situation? I thought the L was for communication between the zone board and the thermostat - like lighting the red LED for emergency heat among other things.

Thanks again.
Jay
 
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Old 02-28-11, 05:40 PM
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Dip Switches:

S-4 all off

S-5
1-off-Heat Pump
2-on-40 F
3-on-2 min
4-off-Panel
5-off-Open
6-on-HVAC
7-on-Cool energized
8-on-dual fuel disabled

Number 8 seems odd if I interpreted it correctly. It is definitely in the on position.

I really appreciate your help with this.

Jay
 
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Old 02-28-11, 08:09 PM
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Is your furnace a two stage gas?

I won't get back to you till Tuesday evening.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:33 AM
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Jay, thanks.

I'm not sure exactly what a two stage gas furnace is.

The model is Lennox GHR26Q4/5-100-6 and it is a 90% furnace running on propane with 2 heat exchangers (I've been told). It has two PVC exhaust pipes that combine prior to exiting from under the house. I believe the furnace is either is on or off. I don't know of two stages of heating from the furnace.

We do not have any electrical heating strips. Our options are to run the heat pump or to run the furnace.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:00 PM
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your furnace is single stage (1)
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:26 PM
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Make some changes to what you see below.

EIM-- Color ----- Zone 1 on TZ-4
O/B-- Orange------ O/B
Aux---White-------W1/E
Y------Yellow-------Y1
G-----Green--------- G
C-----Blue-----------C
R's----Red-----------R

Settings on the IAQ.
110-0
172-2
173-2
174-1
176-1
180-0
190-0
200-1
210-1
220-2
240-3

8-on-dual fuel disabled
This needs to be turned on.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:32 PM
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I really appreciate the tips.

Should I also disconnect the Black wire that is hooded to Aux2 and W2.

And should I disconnect the L wire?
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:46 PM
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I've disconnected the black wire (left the L hooked up)
Flipped the 8th switch to "off" which is dual fuel enabled.
Checked all program setting on the thermostat

173 had option of 0 or 1 only. I couldn't change to 2 as shown in your diagram. I switched from 0 to 1.

Then I tried Emergency heat and the heat pump comes on (no change).

Any more suggestions? Should I disconnect the L? Is 173 correct at 1 or 0 and what does this code mean? the manual I have doesn't show 173.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:55 PM
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I just tried with the L and the Black W2 disconnected and still no change. All settings are the same as you recommended with the exception of the codes on the IAQ as follows.

Currently
173 = 1
180 does not show up as an option.

Ready for the next move whenever you have the time to review. I'm not in a hurry. Thanks again.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kajayda
I've disconnected the black wire (left the L hooked up)
Undo the L.

173 had option of 0 or 1 only. I couldn't change to 2 as shown in your diagram. I switched from 0 to 1.
My bad, should be 0.

Then I tried Emergency heat and the heat pump comes on (no change)
is the other zone stat calling for heat?
 
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Old 03-01-11, 06:00 PM
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Thanks.

L is disconnected.
173 = 0
The other stat is not calling for heat

Just tried emerg heat and heat pump came on again.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 07:44 PM
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How is the wire from the equipment side of the panel tied to the furnace and HP outside?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 05:24 PM
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It is connected by thermostat wire from the upper left hand connectors Rh, W1/E, W2, Y1, G, O/B to the Lennox Surelight board on the Gas Furnace on the side of the air handler. They all connect to the same designations on that board, except the Orange O/B wire looks like it heads to the heat pump, but I didn't trace it down.

The Surelight board has some heavier gage wire that runs to the fan and and I assume to the heat pump. It also connects to the gas furnace.

Let me know if you need any more info or clarification.

Thanks.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:16 PM
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I would trace it back to the unit outside. I am wondering if we are getting back feed.


Zone--------Fur---------HP
R-------------R------------R
G-------------G
W-------------W-----------W?
Y--------------Y------------Y
C--------------C------------C
O/B-------------------------O

What happens if you shut off the IAQ stat, and use emg heat on the other stat?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 07:07 PM
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At any time that I call for emergency heat on the other stat (zone 2), the emergency heat (gas furnace) comes on.

The only thing new on this system is the IAQ and the EIM system on the zone 1 stat.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 07:09 PM
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I am starting to think you may have a defective EIM.

Do you have a meter to take some readings?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 07:29 PM
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You may be right about the EIM

yes I've been checking with a multimeter, I've checked all the outputs from the EIM and I get 24V on the emergency heat W.

The only difference I see is that I get 10V on the "L" when the IAQ is set to E Heat and when the stat from zone 2 is set to emergency heat there is 24V on the "L". that may not mean anything other than communication. Just reporting it because it is a difference.

All the other volt outputs from the EIM and the zone 2 stat are the same when they are individually set to E heat.


When I put the IAQ on Emergency heat there is 24 V on the W and 0 V on the Y on the zone 1 input. I just don't understand why the heat pump would turn on!


I will double check the inputs and outputs tomorrow. Anything in particular I should look for?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 08:03 PM
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Take a reading between Y and C when you call for EM heat.

If nothing is seen there, then go to the Zone board and read between Y and C there.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 06:11 PM
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EM heat from IAQ, zone 2 stat off: EIM Y=0, Aux=25, Zone Board 1 in, Y=0, W1E=25

Heat Pump is running during this test and TZ-4 Output is Y=11, W1E=5
 
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Old 03-03-11, 06:20 PM
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we need to have L connected, been doing some reading......... Let me check with my IAQ I'm not sure if 24V is sent out from mine....
 
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Old 03-03-11, 06:41 PM
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I'm getting roughly 15V on L when in EM heat and calling for heat.
On a typical system without your Zone board L is used to signal trouble in the HP. It is not needed to turn on EM heat, however, your zone board is requiring to see L for whatever reason. I'm going to do some more research and find out what we can do to allow you to keep the IAQ.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 06:46 PM
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For curiousity, I just reconnected the L. Then I reset the board by powering off. Restarted on EM heat.

Heat pump came on. All volt readings are the same as my last message. Also, L=10 on both EIM and Zone 1 in. When the 2 zone stat is calling for EM heat L=24 and gas furnace comes on.

The only difference between the zone 1 and zone 2 inputs is the L value when set to EM heat.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 06:51 PM
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Thanks for your help. Looking forward to hearing if you can find anything.

fyi, the L is hooked up on the 2 zone stat and red light comes on when in EM Heat. The IAQ red light does not come on when it is in EM heat mode.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 07:30 PM
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Ok, something is back feeding to run the HP... If we are reading 0 volts on Y at EIM and Zone control the compressor shouldn't be running.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 07:34 PM
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Jay, I have read in another forum about this zone board, it requires to see L @ 24V for em heat function.

"The VisionPRO TH8320 has an “L” terminal as a 24V input in the heat mode. Only when moved to the emergency heat mode does the “L” terminal become an output.
The VisionPRO IAQ thermostat uses the “L” terminal as an input all the time.
The FocusPRO family uses “L” as an output only."
 
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Old 03-04-11, 04:09 AM
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ok, here. if you are going to be using em heat, just jumper W1/E to L. L then needs to be connected from the EIM to the zone panel. This wont hurt anything due to your zone board acting as the fossil fuel control. otherwise if you don want to do that, you can jumper L on zone 1 to L on zone 2. This should work because when you switch zone 2 to em heat and even if it is not calling for heat, I believe it will still put 24V on L. From what I read, the reason your zone control requires to see L is because your zone board is the fossil fuel kit and also has an em heat switch of its own.
 
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Old 03-04-11, 06:14 AM
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Hope that works out. I know I tried to use the L on mine (from when I used L as LED for 2nd stage heat notice on my 8320) it gave me an error code, and honeywell said remove the L, it's used for the Zone control system.
 
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Old 03-04-11, 05:49 PM
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A small victory. Jumping the L to W1/E allows the IAQ call for EM heat to cause the gas furnace to come on, but with the L hooked from the zone board to the EIM, error 40 flashes on the stat. Red light works. When turning to just "heat" (the heat pump), the heat pump will come on, red light stays on, error 40 still flashing. Then if I turn up the temp a couple degrees so the "Aux Heat" shows in the upper right under the set point, it switches over to gas (don't want that to happen). I just want to be able to run the heat pump or the furnace. The Aux Heat I think should be used for just heating strips, and we aren't fortunate to have them.


So, I disconnected the L, and the error and red light disappear as expected and the gas furnace still comes on.

But...

When I turn the stat back to regular "Heat" the gas furnace goes off, but no heat pump. It is locked out somehow without the L hooked up. Jacking up the temp to Aux Heat comes on bring up the gas furnace.

Thanks to both of your guys for your input. Any more suggestions?
 
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Old 03-04-11, 06:10 PM
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Did you try the other way, I suggested with L on zone 1 jumpered to L on zone 2 and L removed from EIM? Because if you are going to switch one to Em heat, you prob going to switch both?

You do understand that you have the capability you want, just have to switch to EM heat on zone board, correct?
 
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Old 03-04-11, 07:19 PM
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Thanks. We can walk upstairs and turn on the emergency heat (or I can go under the house and throw the switch on the zone board) and if we can't come up with a solution then those are my options. I'm just trying to solve this problem so my wife doesn't have to go up to change it.

This has become more than just the convenience thing for me, I like to solve problems and this one has me stumped. I think it is an oversight from the design engineers to properly mate the IAQ/EIM with the zone board, both Honeywell products.

I didn't try the zone 1 to zone 2 jumper because we can get EM heat already from zone 2. But If you think that this will allow me to get it from zone 1 control only, then I'll give it a try.

Thanks again and have a good night.
 
 

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