Need wiring assistance for thermostat swap/change.


  #1  
Old 09-16-14, 08:26 AM
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Need wiring assistance for thermostat swap/change.

Hello, first post in the forums here but I've been checking these threads specifically from time to time waiting for a suitable thermostat to come to market in my area.

I'm wanting to replace the original Carrier thermostat that came with my HVAC system with something that will work the AUTO setting properly, as it is now, whenever I set it to AUTO (keep the temperature between 18C~22C for example) it will randomly start heating like mad and my daughter will get home from school and call in a panic that it's 40C+ in the house even though it should be running the AC because it's warm outside.

After a bunch of trouble calls to the Carrier service people and many checks on their side, they've come to the conclusion that my thermostat does not properly support the AUTO function and recommended I not use it.

Thank you installation company...

My actual setup is a Carrier Puron heat-pump/AC and a Carrier oil furnace + humidifier unit.

So now I've found the Honeywell Colour Wi-FI RTH9580WF1013 model and was looking to DYI instructions for a straight replacement but I have a some questions, see pictures below:







Other than my poor photography skills (dammit Jim, I'm an sound engineer, not a photographer...) the above photos show the current thermostat.

As you can see I have 9 wires coming to it and I need to connect it to this screengrab (below) from the Honeywell instructions video:



So the R, G, Y and C (C is the black wire, the wire hides the C right next to the DHUM terminal) wires are quite straightforwards as they have identically labeled connectors on the Honeywell unit.

However, I have the following connectors wired up:

O/W2* (orange wire) which I imagine COULD go to the W-O/B connector on the Honeywell.

W/W1 (white wire) which is confusing because its Honeywell counterpart could either be the W-O/B connector OR the W2-aux/E connector. ???

In fact, the orange and white wires are a toss up in my mind, as they could go to either the WOB or the W2AuxE connector on the Honeywell.

Also, I have a blue wire that connects to the HUM terminal. No idea where that might go in the Honeywell but I'm making an educated guess the HUM stands for humidifier, I have the humidifier module attached to my ventilation system and it is controlled by the current Carrier thermostat.

Lastly, there are the S1 and S2 wires. According to some other threads in the forum these are the outside temperature sensors, I know the Honeywell has that function because you can see it on the main screen "waiting for outside temp" but there are no S1/S2 connectors on the unit.

Also it's unclear if I only have an R wire but no RC, should I leave the jumper or remove it?

Please help and thank you!
 
  #2  
Old 09-16-14, 09:21 PM
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http://dms.hvacpartners.com/docs/100...tstat-23si.pdf

Orange = W-O/B
White = Aux

As for the blue wire...

HUMIDIFICATION
The Thermidistat Control directly connects to a standard 24-vac
humidifier to control humidification in the home. A humidify set
point between 10 and 45 percent relative humidity is selected by
the homeowner, or all humidification can be turned off. When
humidity in home drops below set point, humidifier will be turned
on to raise humidity level. Humidification can only occur in
heating mode (HEAT or AUTO/HEAT). Five different humidifi-
cation selections are available and are described below.
1. Normal Humidify
In normal humidify, humidifier will be on if there is a
humidity demand and any heating equipment is on. This will
include furnace, heat pump, or auxiliary heat. In heat pump
applications, this is an improvement over using an external
humidistat, which only supplies humidity when auxiliary heat
is on.


The Pro version of that stat would support the blue wire but that retail stat will not.

You must also configure the thermostat for heat pump with Aux heat.
 
  #3  
Old 09-17-14, 06:56 AM
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Wow, that is awesome. I don't know how you found the model Carrier thermidistat I have but it's exactly it.

So from what I gather there exists a Pro version of the Honeywell. I did not know that. I imagine the pro version cannot be simply "purchased" by a normal human?

The local heating company quoted me > 500$ to source and install the Honeywell but I imagine now that the one they'd have installed is a Pro version vs the 250$ retail version from Home Depot.

Yeah, you read that right, 500$+. That's 390$ for the Honeywell TH9320 and minimum 2h to install it @ 99$/h +tx.

Thanks for the information, I'll try and find information on the Pro version.
 
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Old 09-17-14, 05:46 PM
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Looks like the pro version th9320wf5003 doesn't have a hum terminal either.
The Honeywell Lyric appears to be the only Honeywell WiFI stat to support a humidifier.
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I usually deal with their Redlink line of thermostats.
The Redlink thermostats require a separate intenet gateway but the Redlink visionPro TH8320R
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as well as the Prestige and of course the Presige IAQ support a humidifier.

Since a redlink thermostat can pair with an EIM it can support many additional products.
Like a humidifier a dehumidifer , a fresh air damper, a return air duct sensor, a supply air duct sensor and 2 more sensors.
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We would have charged more than your quote for that installed thermostat.

Remember to turn off power to the indoor unit before replacement.
 

Last edited by Houston204; 09-17-14 at 08:49 PM.
  #5  
Old 09-25-14, 01:08 PM
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Right, well then. As of last week, the "condition" spread to the thermostat set to COOL, it started heating TWICE, once Saturday evening and once last night again, both times the temperture outside dropped rapidly from about 20C to 10~14C while the indoor temperature was 24C. The AC is supposed to "kick-in" at 10PM and cool to 21C.

Instead, both times the COOL icon was flashing with the triangle next to it, and rather than cooling with the heat pump, it was running the furnace at full blast.

In fact, last night we were out, and only arrived at home at 10:15PM or so, and the temperature in the house was 29C.

The only fix in both cases was to turn the main power breaker to the whole system off for about 30 seconds, then on again, then set the thermostat to the OFF setting or IT WILL TRIGGER THE HEAT AGAIN. Once it's OFF for about 20 minutes, then the COOL setting can be selected again and the heat-pump now blows cool air.

I'm going to have to change that thermostat before the winter comes, God only knows what it will decide to do when the temperature drops to below freezing, or below the heat-pump aux-heat threshhold (I think it's < -12C)



So per your last edit, you seem to recommend I take the service company's offer of around 500$ to install their version of the Honeywell Wi-Fi device?
 
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Old 09-25-14, 05:11 PM
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No, I recommend a Prestige IAQ thermostat and an internet gateway.

http://www.amazon.com/Prestige%C2%AE...l+Prestige+IAQ

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-THM6...RDQ5152H90CVYR

I am confident that it would be more capable and less expensive than their offer.

Or, if you want to save $70 get a TH8320R1003 thermostat and an internet gateway.
(This option would be an easier install)
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH83...F10AHJY1XKA9SQ
 

Last edited by Houston204; 09-25-14 at 05:51 PM.
  #7  
Old 09-26-14, 06:08 AM
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The Prestige IAQ doesn't have normal wi-fi and relies on a special internet gateway which is weird, I will look at both options and mostly the installation diagrams.

I'm in Canada, which means I might not be able to order those items from Amazon US but I can probably have them shipped somewhere near the border and pick them up across the lines. I'm not very far from NY state and Vermont.

Thanks!
 
  #8  
Old 09-26-14, 08:30 AM
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So someone pointed this device out to me:

Venstar Colortouch Digital Thermostat With Colour Touch Screen/Humidity Control - Aartech Canada

Instructions here:

Download Venstar T5900 Owner's Manual And Installation Instructions

It looks like I have the 6 wire, 1 stage cooling, 2 stage heat setup (page 52). If that's correct I'll go ahead and order that Venstar thermostat + the WiFi adapter, as it also has the humidifier controls and looks like it will be a straight swap with a little programming.
 
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Old 09-26-14, 08:58 PM
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Looks like it will support your system and is less expensive.
Are you going to get an outdoor sensor?
It is a good looking thermostat.

Name:  Venstar T5900.jpg
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I am very happy with the Prestige IAQ. I have an internet gateway, a float switch, a return air duct sensor, a supply air duct sensor, a pressure switch after the air filter, a wireless portable comfort control, and a wireless outdoor sensor connected to it.

The EIM still has 3 sets of available terminals. I have installed a humidifier, a dehumidifier and a fresh air damper to these ports on a customer's application recently.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 10:26 AM
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I have an outdoor temp sensor. S1 and S2 wires. I'm not sure which I will get right now. It's pointing towards the Venstar if only because it's quite a bit cheaper and can be sourced locally from a retail store.

I'd have to order the Prestige over the Internet and customs brokerage usually breaks it for me (UPS charge a 40$ flat fee.) but I've checked eBay and they have some available from Canada, however the price is almost double what it lists for in the US.

Right now, it's a toss-up.
 
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Old 09-29-14, 11:02 AM
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Post back if you are able to use a Carrier outdoor sensor on that Venstar thermostat. I believe it didn't work on an old Honeywell thermostat when I tried it @ 20 years ago.
 
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Old 09-30-14, 05:53 AM
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Oh, no.

The outdoor sensor is embedded in my electricity meter. Hydro Quebec gives us a dual-energy rate per kWh. We get a 50% rebate when the temp is above -12C but we pay 4x the rate when it's below that.

It's a temperature sensor and comes out to the S1 and S2 terminals at the thermostat.

Looks like this:



The sensor is embedded in the empty slot (round hole) on the left of where the LCD says LIV.

It's used to lock the heat pump out below -12C, change the kWh rate on the counter and it turns on a yellow light near the dryer so that my wife knows not to use the 220V appliances when it's that cold or we wind up with a mad electric bill.

We use an oil furnace and the water heater is also powered with heating oil.
 
 

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