About 2 years ago we had a new furnace installed to replace our 1965 unit. Neighbor recommended his contractor and we used him. Also added AC at the time. As part of the same contract we had them install an on demand hot water heater. The furnace job required duct work to a family room which used to be a garage. A new supply was brought in and returns added. The contractor said this would be a separate zone.

Zoning was done with a Honeywell HZ311. Thermostats are Trane Tcont600 single stage. New wire was pulled for both thermostats - 5 wire. As soon as complete we complained about loud air noise in the small zone. He explained the unit times out and goes to 2nd stage. He tried to adjust the new vent registers to stop the noise. At that time I still didn't know what a 2 stage furnace did and how a thermostat for it was different. Hear was cycling on/off repeatedly. Looked at the pdf for the thermostat and it said for gas over 90% efficiency that it should be 3 cph but was set to 5 cph so if was changed and cycling was better.

Cooling season came and the AC wouldn't come on. Called them back again and he found a wire disconnect at furnace. He connected it and it started the outside unit. He checked coolant level and said we were ok. Temp never came down in the house. I noticed the cool light flashing on the zone board. I called him back again and he came out and checked coolant level again. I also had looked at the dip switches and found the selection for outside unit was wrong and the comfort r was not on. He reset it and said it was ok. I rechecked before he left and he had set everything wrong so I asked him to do it again. He said if the unit still trips he would remove the dats. He also said we could open the dampers to allow air flow to the zone not calling for heat/cool. He also moved the heat 2nd stage delay to the max to avoid going to 2nd stage for 30 seconds before shut down.

Continued to trip at each cycle. I called back again and he said he would be back to change the dats. Never heard from him again and no one ever showed up.

I ended up opening the big zone closed position a lot to stop the trips. I had another guy come out and he recommended a bypass damper, new stat for the big zone, new HW 2 stage zone board. The bill was outrageous since we had just bought the system and were not happy with the original. So we decided to live with it.

Recently I decided to try and go without zoning. I disconnected the small zone valve to peevent closing and turned off the thermostat in that room. House is controlling fine and small zone temp matches rest of the house. With the damper open to prevent closing fully there really wasn't any zoning anyway.

I would like to move to a 2 stage thermostat in the original location and remove the zoning. I found the HW TH8321U1097 which should be able to do it. I will have to pull wire but the one connected now was just put there so I know there is no staple holding it inside the wall. I should be able to use it as my fish tape. Looks like this unit has a selectable dry contact to use the bk terminal to slow the fan for dehumidification.

My questions are:
1. Would this thermostat do what I need and take full advantage of my furnace capabilities? 2 stage heat 1 stage cool with possibility for dehumidification using the bk terminal.
2. Also would comfort r remain on if using the bk terminal? At this time there is no jumper between y and o on my board so even though it is selected it is probably not working anyway. I understand the bk to r jumper on the board will have to be cut to use bk.
3. The manual says the u1 contact is normally open and a jumper has to be put between r and u1. After that the other end is connected to bk. Is normally open correct? I assume the thermostat knows when to open and close the contact.

4. I will use the b/c to power the thermostat. Even though I have an extra wire now, they didn't connect it at the zone board or thermostat.

5. I looked through the set up options and it looks pretty straightforward.

I know this is supposed to be installed by a pro but I have no faith in my original contractors ability. The next guy who came out still wanted to keep the zoning, replace thermostat, and add a bypass damper at considerable cost. I can do this for about $200 without zoning and be taking advantage of the fancy furnace. I don't know why they would have pulled new wires for both thermostats and put single stage controls in the first place. Makes no sense to me to have the entire house as one zone and one room as another.

Any help would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

GP

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ywords=TH8321R

The Honeywell TH8321U cannot take advantage of the BK terminals because it does not have a Dehum (or a U) terminal.

The Honeywell TH8321R can support the BK terminal.
It looks similar but uses a blue screen instead of the green screen found on the U model.

The R model will support up to 5 wireless sensors and averaging if you find that some zones or not controlled well enough. ( it actually supports up to 6 sensors if you configure the stat not to use it's internal sensor for the average)


How many wires do you have between the stat and furnace? 7?
The TH8321R can also support an EIM and run on only 2 wires if pulling wire is not an option.
It can also run wirelessly (on batteries) when used with an EIM.

The Honeywell Redlink line of thermostats is the flagship line and introduces the possibility to add an internet gateway or a remote control..
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH83...ywords=TH8321R

 

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HZ32...l+zone+control

I would also consider replacing the zone control board.
I would control the small zone with one of the other 2 zones to keep from tripping the discharge air temperature sensor.

You can configure the zone control to energize both stages of heating when both zones call for heat.

It would be important to snap a few pictures and label the wiring before replacing the zone control.

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell...ll/69-2199.pdf

 

Only 2 zones now:
zone 1 is 3 beds 1.5 bath kitchen living and dining room

zone 2 is family room

Really doesn't make sense for a zone for a room. I am going with no zoning for the past weeks without issue and it has been really cold.

Honeywell TH8321U1097 VisionPro 8000 Universal Programmable Thermostat, Three Stage Heat Two Stage Cool (Touchscreen) With 1 Universal IAQ Terminal

I think this one has 1 iaq output. Instructions show jumper from r to u1 at thermostat and then out to bk from thermostat. I think it is new.

They pulled 5 wires for each thermostat. 1 was new and the other was just 2 wires before.

GP

 

Sounds like you will need to pull wire some wire.

The Redlink TH8321R is still better thermostat since it offers so many upgrade options but you are correct, the TH8321U1097 will support your BK terminal.

I installed a TH8321U on my house 10 years ago. It was still working the day that I upgraded to the Redlink Prestige IAQ.

Is this a single story house?

 

Yes, the house is a single story ranch.

 

Can comfort r stay on with the stat controlling humidity by lowering the blower speed with BK?

Also my 5/6 switches are set for comfort r but there is no jumper between y and o. I should add a jumper there, right. It's a conventional 2 stage gas furnace with 1 stage AC.

Thanks
GP

 

What is the model number of your XR95 furnace?

 

Furnace XV95 TUH2B060A9V3VAC
Comfort Coil 4TXCC005CC3HCBA
Outside Unit XB14 4TTB4030E1000AA
Zone Controller Honeywell HZ311 with 2 zones using Honeywell dampers
Thermostats - TCONT600

 

Yes, you can have the furnace set to ramp up and down with Comfort R and use the BK terminal to reduce blower speed on demand for dehumidification.


When you get the new stat...
Configure the U terminals on the thermostat for normally closed.

Cut the BK jumper and add a jumper between Y and O.





Are your dip switches set to:
On, Off ,Off, Off, On, On, On, Off

 

I will check tomorrow but I think so. Took 3 tries with original contractor to get them set but think they are now. Originally the heat was set to med-low too. There is no jumper from y to o now and I did notice it should be but wanted to make sure.

I think I will get the thermostat you recommend. Same as other but has wireless capabilities. Probably wire to furnace with no eim. The wire pull should be easy.

I will be ordering shortly.

GP

 

Yes, the Redlink configures using English and the VisionPro uses codes.

If the VisionPro was a lot cheaper it might be worth getting but it is a dollar more expensive for the older VisionPro line.

When I am configuring them the Redlink feels like the better stat.

 

Yes dip switches are set as you wrote. The 2nd stage timer is at 15 min and fan after heat at 100 sec on the other 2 sets of switches.

I thought about it more and to buy 50 feet of 18/8 wire will be $35 and for only $15 more I can get the eim instead. I'm thinking the stat you recommended with eim using my existing wiring. Then I only need a short piece from the eim to furnace board. Better for future add ons if there are ever any. I might add a wireless sensor in the old small zone to average the temp to be sure we are even.

Is the redlink reliable? Is there ever any issue with thermostat losing communication? Do I need any duct sensors?

Thanks for the help Houston. You have definitely pointed me in a new direction

GP

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CIIONAA/...=I66IKS27C7VRB

The duct sensors are optional but it is cheaper when you get them with the EIM.
I have the duct sensors in my house.

Your setup will wire in like the Prestige IAQ if you get the EIM.

 

The Redlink communication is very reliable.

It's ability to communicate with your cell phone would depend on your internet connection and cell phone connection. An internet gateway is required for this feature.

I have many Redlink thermostats in the high rise that I work in most.
They work great but a cell phone has trouble communicating with them when we are in the center of the building because our cell phones don't work well in the center of the building.

My cell phone doesn't work well on top of the building either...

 

Ok, was just worried a little about losing communication between the stat and eim with redlink. The distance is not very great between the 2 but was wondering if it would lose sometimes. Just a little uncomfortable running necessary equipment wirelessly.

Still up in the air between buying wire or eim. I don't think I will be adding any other equipment but you never know.

 

You can always add the EIM the day you add equipment.

The diagnostics with the duct sensors would be the only great feature now.

A gateway is not required to use an EIM.

 

Thinking this eim:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CII...A2KWCD4IAZU01T


And this thermostat:
Honeywell TH8321R1001 Vision pro 8000 Thermostat:Amazon:Home Improvement

You agree with this selection? I can either use the sensors or save them. I can get them for an additional $3.

Or I can get this with free shipping with the better screen. Net is only about $15 with the free shipping with prime.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C293SJC/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Can you see the delta t on the thermostat when you run the installer tests? Not sure the temperature rise has ever been checked. Never saw the installer do it when they were working.

Thanks again
GP

 

I paid $54 for 2 duct sensors without the EIM at a parts house a few weeks ago.
You can run diagnostics any time that you want.
After running diagnostics you can program the stat to give you an alert if it is over or under your heating or cooling delta tee.

So if I run cooling and I see that I have an 18 degree drop in temperature, I can program the stat to give me an alert if it sees 25 degrees or 15 degrees.

25 might indicate a dirty filter and less than 15 could indicate a cooling problem.

The same can be done with heating.
Many gas furnaces are rated for a 35 to 55 degree rise in temperature. Your furnace tag will display your rated rise.
After running diagnostics the first time you can set it higher and lower than it normally runs.

This knowledge is even more helpful if you ever decide to add the gateway.
You may see an alarm on your cell phone that will remind you to pick up an air filter on the way home.

Upgrades just depend on how far you want to go.

This is the new style with a gateway...
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-YTHX...l+prestige+iaq

The Prestige IAQ 3.0 has data logging. The screen is the same size but the border is smaller and it supports updates via the usb port. The EIM also has 4 sensor ports instead of 2.

 

Is that prestige I linked an older model? I think it still does everything I want. I can't find it on the Honeywell site.

I'm thinking that one is what I will get. I like the programming interview style.

Considering I have single stage thermostat, no iaq, and no jumper between y and o, it will be an upgrade.

Thanks again, you have been a great help.

GP

 

A good thing about the model that you posted is the larger size tends to cover the paint difference left by the old stat without the need for an additional backplate.

 

Got my kit today. It's the redesigned Prestige, EIM, and 2 duct sensors. Surprised how small it is, I was expecting a huge device. I will install sometime this week.

 

I connect the return air sensor to S1 and the supply to S2. The stat will ask how you have connected the sensors. They are 10K sensors. It will ask that as well.

 

One question. My AC unit is wire nutted to y and c at the zone panel I'm removing. The wire doesn't reach the furnace board though. Which is better?

Wire nut the y from the furnace and to the AC together like they are with a third wire to the eim

Or

Put the y from the furnace and y to the AC on the same terminal at the eim under 1 screw.

To bring the AC y and c to the furnace board I have to run a new wire from the furnace to the outdoor AC unit. Obviously this would be ideal but I am just trying to avoid running all the way outside with it.

I plan to install tomorrow. I know all 3 do the same thing, how would you do it?

Thanks again
GP

 

Wire nut the y from the furnace and to the AC together like they are with a third wire to the eim.

 

Ok that's what I will do. Just wanted to make sure that was the way to do it.

Thanks

 

Got it installed. Spliced the AC wires with wirenuts like you said. Noticed y was white to outside and c was red so I switched both inside and out. Not sure colors mean much.

No issues with install, cut bk to r jumper, jumped y to o at furnace. Tested delta t in 1st stage heat and saw 41 and in 2nd stage heat 45. Furnace shows 35 to 65 in install guide. Set upper and lower limits for both.

Didn't test AC due to outside temp being low. Will test in spring.

Thinking of a wired indoor sensor TR21 where the old thermostat in the small room was. Still there for monitoring temp. Probably average between the 2 temps. Don't want wireless to avoid battery changes. That TR21 is just 2 wires right? I have s3 and s4 available so I have room for 2 more sensors.

GP

 

I always get the wireless remote indoor sensors. I have never used a TR21.

20 K ohm NTC non-linear Temperature Wall Module
"The TR21, TR22, TR23, and TR24 are a family of direct wired wall modules for use with Honeywell Excel 600, 500, 100, and 80 controllers; Excel 10 W7750, W7751A, W7752, and W7753 controllers; W7761 Controller; and Spyder Unitary Controllers. "

 

The TR21 is listed as the wired indoor sensor. I have a wire there already. Only thing about the wireless is the battery life. Only a few months from what I read. Are you using one at your house? How is the battery life?

 

The batteries last over one year.
Probably closer to two.

Are you saying that it is listed as the wired sensor for the Prestige EIM or a wired sensor for Excel 600, 500, 100 and 80?

Do you have one connected to the Prestige EIM now?