Thermostat for Heat Pump with Auxiliary Radiator Heat


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Old 05-20-18, 06:58 PM
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Thermostat for Heat Pump with Auxiliary Radiator Heat

I have a Bryant 215BNA024-A Heat Pump with Carrier FV4CNF003 L00ABAA Air Handler in a rental apartment that I own. I thought I was getting an Air conditioner but they installed a heat pump by mistake. The heating system for apartment is one zone of a hydronic system. The radiators work fine and the AC system works OK, although I don't think the variable speed is working. The contractor that installed the system said that with the correct thermostat we could use the hydronic system as the backup and take advantage of the heat pump down to about 35 outside (the place is in Washington, DC). Through conversations with Honeywell I purchased The TH6220U2000 Thermostat with the Honeywell C7089U 1006 Outdoor sensor. My contractor has tried very hard to get everything working together but is at his wits end. I looked up the Carrier unit and they recommended a TP-PRH01-B which is a thermostat that uses the variable speed to control humidity (very important in swampy DC) but I do not know if it will also control the radiators as auxiliary heat. Will this thermostat work? Is there a better choice? Wifi and programmability are not high priorities. Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 05-20-18, 07:20 PM
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What you are using for back up heat has no effect on what temperature the heat pump will work down to. That is controlled strictly by it's design.

You need a thermostat that specifies it will work with a dual fuel system.
I'm not aware of an aftermarket thermostat that will control a variable speed blower.

My forum partner... Houston.... may know.
 
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Old 05-20-18, 08:17 PM
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http://www.refripartesrd.com/uploads...n%20Manual.pdf

I recommend a Honeywell Prestige IAQ
It is similar to the Carrier Edge (TP-PRH) but I like it more. It has more options and it is more user friendly.
 
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Old 05-20-18, 09:04 PM
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How does your existing thermostat tie into the boiler control.
Is it anything like this...
https://goo.gl/images/nzXwhN
 
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Old 05-20-18, 09:30 PM
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Well, user friendly is huge right now. My contractor zoned my hydronics into three zones, one for each apartment using Honeywell V8043F1036 valves. I have one circulator pump. When any one of those three zone thermostats calls for heat, the circulator and boiler come on.

He has got that working fine. After a little more research, I do not think that the Carrier edge is dual fuel. The Bryant Model T6-PRH01-B looks likes it does everything, Thermidistat; works with variable speed to control humidity, Duel Fuel; will work with my boiler , and; works with heat pumps, and I can get one on ebay, new , for $60. Now, if my guy cannot get it set up or it is unreliable, or something else, that $60 is going to cost me a great deal more.

If I get an IAQ do I need the interface module or anything else? Will it give me humidity control?

I live 8 or 10 hours away. I need something that my guy can do and I do not have to worry about. It means a great deal if you have had good luck with the IAQ.
 
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Old 05-20-18, 09:41 PM
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I have got another question, not nearly as important. The unit is in the Upflow Application (vertical orientation) as shown in figure 2. It is installed with a 1" thick weird sized filter. Is there some sort of adapter he can put on the bottom so that I can put a proper 4" or 5" thick filter on this? I guess he could add one of those housings on the side, although it would have to narrow down to transition to the "Field Supplied Return Plenum". I just don't see anything good about these 1" thick filters if we can do better.
 
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Old 05-21-18, 04:48 AM
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So the heat pump station will be controlling a single boiler zone?

It seems like they dropped the edge name with the new model.
Still looks the same. The older model states dual fuel with gas furnace.
 
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Old 05-21-18, 04:51 AM
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Yes, each floor has its own thermostat and zone for heating by radiator.
 
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Last edited by cdrat; 05-21-18 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 05-21-18, 06:45 AM
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If you still recommend the IAQ, I am fine with that.
 
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Old 05-21-18, 07:21 AM
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I just spoke with someone who said that I will not be able to get dehumidification because I have a single stage heat pump, If that is the case, can I get the current TH6220U2000 Thermostat with the Honeywell C7089U 1006 Outdoor sensor working to make the radiator heat the auxiliary? If that is the best I can do, I will be happy.

Now I remember that my contractor said that he could get the TH6220U working, but the fan would blow even though the heat pump was not working and the Radiators were on. I looked in the manual and even while they are called "dual fuel", it seems as if the backup heat source is only listed as "forced air" so maybe that is the problem. Maybe I am reading it wrong, this is getting discouraging.
 

Last edited by cdrat; 05-21-18 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 05-21-18, 01:13 PM
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If you look at Fig.9 in the manual that I posted in post 3, it shows that dehumdification is possible with a single stage outdoor unit..
 
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Old 05-21-18, 02:02 PM
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Fantastic.
So the Honeywell Prestige IAQ
1) use my existing outdoor sensor C7089U to control the Heat Pump?
2) Use my Honeywell valve to control the radiators as the auxiliary heat without turning on the fan?
3) Dehumidify so that I can set the max AC humidity to be 50% and it will slowly run the fan?

Do you think it is so simple I can go set it up?
Do I need any accessories besides the thermostat itself? I need to buy the IEM as well?
 
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Old 05-22-18, 06:48 PM
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1- yes
2- ? I don't know how you have tied in the boiler with the heat pump. This is how we did it for a different poster. It was an example. We will need to look into your setup a little more .



3-yes

You can set it up with our assistance.

The Prestige IAQ comes with the EIM in most bundles.

It is hot in my neck of the woods. I expect to be working late week days.
 

Last edited by Houston204; 05-22-18 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 05-22-18, 08:11 PM
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Sorry, I did not notice the way that the valve was wired in the diagram. I am actually in DC now and will take a good look at the way it is done. Reading up on the IAQ, it is extremely impressive, and I know they mention Hot Water radiator heat, I have just not found anything as detailed as the diagram you sent me. I will try to photograph and diagram the valve setup tomorrow.

I was in the apartment today and it is humid and not getting down to temp. The thermostat was set to 69 and it will not get below 74. I know that is a decent temperature, but it felt very clammy in there.
Thanks again for getting back to me.
 
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Old 05-23-18, 12:02 PM
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I am in the apartment now and cannot figure out how to to get the thermostat in test mode so I can give you the delta T. It is muggy and wont go below 75.
 
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Old 05-23-18, 03:59 PM
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The Honeywell Prestige IAQ can give you the delta t from the thermostat if the included sensors are installed.

If you have that TH6220 installed you can just turn down the stat setpoint in cool mode and measure the delta tee with a meat thermometer.
 
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Old 05-23-18, 07:05 PM
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It was turned down when I got there with no delta. I futzed around, turned it off and it went down to 59F. eventually back to nothing. I tried it again and it did not go down. I photographed the wiring and the zone valve (which worked great last winter) I am at a loss and had to leave town again.

Each of the three zone valves is wired to its own thermostat and to each other. I will look online for a diagram.
 
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Old 05-24-18, 05:33 AM
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I am happy to just disconnect the radiator valve and get this working in any way possible. I have ordered a Prestige IAQ but will not have it for a couple days. I assume there is a problem with this wiring since I was able to briefly get the unit to cool to 59F.

Thanks
 
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Old 05-24-18, 09:37 AM
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Disconnect W at the stat.

Is the outdoor unit running?
Running across and heat simultaneously is a possibility but you should still have a cold suction line and be blowing hot air out the top of the outdoor unit.

A bad run cap or pressure switch trip seems more likely.
 
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Old 05-24-18, 12:38 PM
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Ok, what will disconnecting the “w” do? Would a bad run cap or pressure switch make sense that I can momentarily get the cooling on? So they might function properly momentarily?

Thanks
 
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Old 05-24-18, 08:03 PM
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So Disconnecting the W will get rid of the zoning valve? I did not look at the outside unit (it is on the roof, but I should have thought of it) . The only heat available is the heat pump and the radiators. It seems to me that the outside unit must not have been running, there was no coolness except for the brief time after I turned it off.

But the wiring looks OK? I showed the red and white wires since that was to the zone valve.
 
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Old 05-25-18, 09:53 PM
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So the problem is not with the wiring?
 
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Old 05-26-18, 12:14 AM
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Is the hot water coil that is controlled by your thermostat hot?
 
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Old 05-26-18, 06:18 AM
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There is no hot water coil. The valves control the radiators on that floor. That is the only heat besides the heat pump.
 
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Old 05-26-18, 08:06 AM
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I don’t see how a radiator would have an effect on the delta tee.
If you have no delta tee it is not cooling or electric heat strips are energized.

Do you have heat strips in that air handler?

There are 2 copper refrigerant pipes connected to the air handler.

The larger pipe is the suction line.
The suction line should be “beer cold” when the system is cooling.
Is your suction line cold when the unit is trying to cool?

The smaller copper pipe is the liquid line.
I would expect the liquid line to be 2 to 9 degrees above the temperature at the condenser.
If that liquid line practically burns your hand after startup the condenser fan motor has likely dropped out.
 
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Old 05-26-18, 08:00 PM
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Thanks Much. I will get back to you when I know more. After I get this panic solved I will be back to you about the installation of the Honeywell Prestige IAQ. Thanks.
 
 

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