Replace Carrier Edge With Ecobee-5

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Old 07-11-20, 04:28 PM
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Replace Carrier Edge With Ecobee-5

I was overjoyed when i saw the same current thermostat that someone wanting to add an Ecobee-3. But those posts were a few years old and now we have the ecobee-5 on the market. More joy...as you know the Edge is a 2-wire communicating thermoStat And previously I only saw 4 wires going into it...tonight I actually pulled the wire out and it is indeed a 5-wire (with the blue wire!!!!).

Background: Recently had solar panels installed and we need a new thermostat.

Our HVAC is a Carrier heat pump setup (58CTA110-12), with gas furnace, aprilaire700.

There is an Equipment control module (ecm) mounted next to the furnace, i guess to integrate the humidifier, and outdoor temp sensor. does anyone know what the small device is below the ECM’s function is? I hope all the pictures will post here.

Question..Will I now be able to do this myself now that i found the cable has a C wire?

it looks like there is a red and white wire going to the aprilaire700 that i will need to deal with.

so essentially, i will be disconnecting from the ECM and routing everything to amd from the furnace’s board...

since the Ecobee-5 will be connected to wifi, i wont need the temp sensor to the outside.

I am getting ahead of myself....







 

Last edited by PJmax; 07-11-20 at 04:48 PM. Reason: reoriented/resized pictures
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Old 07-11-20, 04:52 PM
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Don't jump for joy yet.

You say you have a heat pump system. I see a gas furnace. That means you have a dual fuel setup.
There are too many functions to carry to the thermostat for fives wires.

You'll need..... R, C, Y, O/B, W, G, W2 (furnace), ACC+ for humidifier.
That's eight wires needed and you have currently have five.
 
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Old 07-11-20, 05:05 PM
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Craptacular. The HVAC COMPANY i called yesterday said the ecobee5 doesn't work well with my system . They suggested the honeywell t10. I called ecobee in toronto and they didn't seem too discouraged that their product would not work with our system.

ok, so....could i run More conductors to the stat or choose another stat?

The dual fuel complicates matters yes?
 
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Old 07-13-20, 05:32 AM
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Has anyone changed the thermistat on a carrier edge with an ecobee with voice control?

What should I do at this point?

thanks in advance...
 
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Old 07-13-20, 05:36 AM
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Should I try to stay with Carrier and use their smart thermostat instead of the Ecobee line?
 
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Old 07-25-20, 05:22 PM
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https://www.doityourself.com/forum/t...cobee-3-a.html

i found this archived thread with a similar situation.

my system is a heat pump
with gas furnace,
and a humidifier.

PJMAX said I will need 8 conductors and only have 5.
this should be easy enough to Run another set of thermostat conductors— this must be a common situation and I suppose people simply RE-label the wires since some colors will be duplicated, unless they sell off colored wire conductors for this purpose.

I see that I will loose the outside temperature sensor....what happens when this happens? Is this function controlled in some other way with the ecobee-5?

Lets say the new thermostat is Wired to the furnace board from that point it needs an HVAC professional to dial in all the other settings—-this isn’t going to be plug and play is it?

I appreciate any responses thank you.

 
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Old 07-25-20, 06:10 PM
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I would not recommending running additional conductors. I would suggest running an actual 8 conductor cable as it reduces duplicate color problems.

No..... this is not plug and play. The thermostat will require a bit of programming.
You'll need to run the new cable. It will connect directly to the furnace bypassing the EIM module.
Then you'll need to add in the humidifier wiring. It's doable..... others have done it.
The E5 can control the setpoint where the heat pump shuts down.

One thing I was looking for was if Ecobee is now incorporating emergency heat. With your system.... it will run on the heat pump, then bring on the electric reheats. Then if that can't keep up it will shut the heatpump system down and switch to the gas furnace. A problem is that if the heatpump system malfunctions... you can select the gas furnace manually.
 
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Old 08-08-20, 10:30 PM
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I bought the 8-conductor thermostat wire and ran it through the wall and it is bundled at thermostat and next to furnace.

the next step for me is clearing up some other questions. Our one HVAC company that does our yearly maint. Said the E5 has problems with our carrier edge heat pump and they recommended a honeywell stat.... I wonder why? But We are sold on the E5......over the nest.

ECOCOBEE said to run the new stat cable, which I have....

I want to have everything in place so all the real HVAC FOLKS have to do is connect the wires and setup the system....so they spend these least amount of time here to keep cost down.

Any thing else i shoukd know of consider?


 
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Old 08-09-20, 08:12 AM
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When i went into the walk, behind this stat, i see that contractor, had spliced sections of wire in the wall in order ti have a RED wire and a WHITE wire...no idea why they did this.....
 
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Old 09-29-20, 03:35 AM
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Replacing carrier Edge thermostat with Ecobee-5 for a hybrid system.

We have a hybrid carrier heat pump 58cts with an aprilaire700 humidifier.

i want to i stall a new smart thermostat and replace the carrier Edge.

i ran new 8 conductor thermostat wire.

The only requirement of the ecobee 5 is that it can run my 2-stage cool and 3-stage heat carrier 58cts system.

the first thing i have to do is disconnect the carrier ecm and connect the thermostat wire and humidifier to the furnace board.
ecobee has a map of the different wires, everything seems to be color coded.

then connect the wires at the new thermistat.

QUESTION: is it as easy as what i just described? Will the ecobee smart thermostat know it is a 2-stage cool, 3-stage heat system?
 
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Old 09-29-20, 10:18 AM
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Threads combined. Came back and changed my reply.
Just curious why a new thread was started when all the needed information was in the first one.,

Will the ecobee smart thermostat know it is a 2-stage cool, 3-stage heat system?
The ecobee know what wires are connected and bases the type of system on those wires.

The ecobee doesn't list three stage heating.
What is that.... two compressor speeds plus electric ?
It will handle two stage cooling and two stage heating plus electric reheats.

Our one HVAC company that does our yearly maint. Said the E5 has problems with our carrier edge heat pump and they recommended a honeywell stat.... I wonder why?
Probably because Honeywell uses relay switching while the Ecobee uses electronic switching.... just like the nest.

 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-29-20 at 10:24 AM. Reason: changed based on duplicate thread
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Old 09-29-20, 12:20 PM
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The company that installed the unit says the E5 must be able to control 2-stage cool, 3-stage heat.

I dont know if they are just trying to confuse enduser (me) to compel to totally vest them for the thermostat install or if my carrier 58cts heatpump-gas furnace with humidifier is indeed a 2-stage/3-stage heat hybrid.

originally they said they would not install a E5 that I bought....they would handle the entire install for $750. But now they said I can buy it and they will connect it for $300. I am still inclined to do it myself if i dont risk burning **** up or if further programing is required.

Really pissed me off. So I pull the new wire, i buy the unit, mount the unit and all that is required is disconnecting the ECM from the furnace board, connect new stat wires according to the ecobee app. , picture attached.

So, i CREATED a new post for clarity. And the burning question. Does a 2/3 hybrid carrier system sound like something I have? Can I connect color coded wires to the board and stat according to the idiot diagram and then will the E5 just sort it out?

If combining the posts works better, I am happy you did that .

so what is desirable relay or electronic switching?


Ecobee wiring app
 
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Old 09-29-20, 01:03 PM
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If you were starting off with a clean slate.... I would be just as baffled as I was the first time you posted. I would have needed to ask questions and you would need to post things already posted.

Relay is like a switch..... on or off. Those white blocks on your EIM are relays.
Electronic uses a semiconductor to switch and depending on the load doesn't always switch correctly. The ecobee's have been fairly reliable while the nests have base problems.

Looking further.....first and foremost..... you have a dual fuel system.
You have a gas furnace and two stage heat pump. I'm guessing propane because typically using natural gas is less costly then running a heat pump.


Rc -------------> red
W/W1 ---------> white
G ---------------> green
Y/Y2 -----------> yellow
C --------------> blue
O/B/W2 ------> orange
OAT -----------> tan/brown = outside air temperature. Won't be used.
HUM ---------> black

Problem...... I'm not seeing two Y (compressor) lines. There should be a wire on Y/Y2 and Y1/W2. That means the thermostat can only demand single stage..... not two stage operation for heating or cooling. That would be a good question for your "techs".
 
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Old 09-29-20, 02:28 PM
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We have natural gas lines no propane.
So the owner of this company has NO idea what system I have even though they installed it years ago AND I provided the model number.
Attached is the label and the furnace board.

Label inside the furnace

Board behind that cover

The big Picture
 

Last edited by saulausus; 09-29-20 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 09-29-20, 03:21 PM
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Is your natural gas inexpensive relative to the cost of electricity ?
Where I am here in NJ.... natural gas is the best bang for the buck in heating making gas a better choice over electric. Curious why you have a heat pump and furnace.
 
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Old 09-29-20, 03:52 PM
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I do not know.
Probably because, It doesn't get as cold here anymore.
When the temp drops below freezing, I guess the gas comes on and the humidifier starts to work at the %humidity I dialed in.
 
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Old 09-30-20, 03:42 PM
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What can you gleen from the furnace label and the wiring board I just posted....
 
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Old 09-30-20, 06:27 PM
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I see nothing in the wiring that illustrates two stage cooling or two stage heat pump. You would need two Y lines for two stage operation. Your furnace could be two stage but it's not setup for that and could not be as it's only backup heat.

Can you post the model number off the outside condenser.
 
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Old 09-30-20, 09:53 PM
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Outside condenser?......the thing outside with the fan?
Remember, there is an electronic control module (ecm) picture that i posted early in this thread, actually the first post (OP) with other wires to and from it.
I really allreciate your help.
 
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Old 10-01-20, 08:07 AM
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Label on the condensor outside.
 
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Old 10-01-20, 08:05 PM
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As far as I can tell..... that is a single stage condenser.
That would mean you have single stage cooling and heating with backup heat.
Carrier 25HBC3 condenser specs.

Yes.... I have looked at the EIM. That where I first noticed no two stage connections. In order for it to be a two stage condenser there would need to be two Y wires..... Y1 and Y 2. You only have one.

 
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Old 10-01-20, 08:31 PM
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so heat and cooling via heat pump
(Backup heat is the gas furnace).....but there is an additional heat mode.

I just remembered something on the the thermostat itself.

would this count or be considered a third stage heating?


EM heat (emergency heat)
 
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Old 10-01-20, 11:20 PM
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Heat = heat pump running in heating mode.
Em heat = furnace.

In normal heat mode..... the heat pump operates to make heat.
When it cannot handle the load..... it switches to aux heat automatically which is the furnace.

In Em heat mode..... just the furnace runs. The heat pump is off.
 
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Old 10-02-20, 03:22 AM
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What more information do we need to install this thermostat on my system?

Do i have an oddball system?

Is the wiring scheme straight forward?

Why would the HVAC company insist it is a 2/3 stage system?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond....



 
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Old 10-02-20, 11:30 AM
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You have an oddball system in that it's dual fuel. Most systems are one or the other.
I'm not sure where the HVAC company is coming up with that.
The wiring is not there to support their statement.

Rc -------------> red ----------------> Rc
W/W1 ---------> white -------------> W1
G ---------------> green ------------> G
Y/Y2 -----------> yellow -----------> Y1
C --------------> blue ---------------> C
O/B/W2 ------> orange -----------> O/B
OAT -----------> tan/brown = outside air temperature. Won't be used.
HUM ---------> black --------------> ACC+

The thermostat needs to be programmed for dual fuel. That tells the heat pump to shut off and the furnace to start on a call for aux heat. The heat pump and furnace cannot run at the same time. You may also have to set an outside temperature for the point where the heat pump shuts down and furnace takes over.

The stat needs to be set for one wire humidifier application.

There is one thing I'm not sure on. A heat pump has a defrost mode due to winter icing. The heat pump actually turns back into an A/C and uses inside warm air to help melt the outside ice. On a standard system with electric reheats.... they come on during defrost. I'm not sure what your furnace will do. It is ok to come on when in defrost.
 
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Old 10-02-20, 12:17 PM
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Over and over again you demonstrate knowledge in this field.

You just described yet again another feature of our system-the setpoint outside temp where the heat pump shuts off and the furnace comes on. I remember this about the temp sensor.

So, would it be more accurate to retain the outside temp sensor with the Ecobee5.
I just copied your response and sent it to ecobee to bee sure the E5 will work. I suppose it doesn’t matter what thermostat I get my system will still be the same oddball set up.

 

Last edited by saulausus; 10-02-20 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 10-02-20, 12:31 PM
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Ecobee offered a module called the EB-RSM. It allowed external inputs into the system. I've never used it and now I see it's discontinued.

So as of this time.... I don't think the Ecobee will connect with an external air temperature sensor.
I'm still checking and someone else may know.


 
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