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Acculink Platinum 1050 - compatibility with Energy Kinetics 2000 boiler.

Acculink Platinum 1050 - compatibility with Energy Kinetics 2000 boiler.


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Old 10-15-21, 12:09 PM
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Question Acculink Platinum 1050 - compatibility with Energy Kinetics 2000 boiler.

Hello message board - have been browsing posts and encouraged to see the diligent responses from the moderators so my expectations of at least getting an answer, even if it's not a solution, are high. So far have been unable to get anything out of American Standard/Trane customer service and my HVAC guy has gone awol

System components below:

TStat
Name: Acculink Platinum 1050 Control
Brand: American Standard
Model: AZON1050AC52ZA

Boiler
Name: System 2000
Brand: Energy Kinetics
Model: EK-1F

Air Handler
Name: ForeFront™ Platinum TAM9
Brand: Trane / American Standard
Model: TAM9A0B30V31DAB

Condenser
Name:AccuComfort™ Variable Speed Platinum 20
Brand: Trane / American Standard
Model: 4A7V0024A1000BA

This set up is supposed to control AC to top floor of he house as well as baseboard heating to the same space (Boiler is zoned).
The AC set up was installed as a replacement to the old AC unit that died. I used to have the old AC unit (single stage) and the boiler connected to a common Ecobee TStat. When the new AC came in the new Tstat was needed to take advantage of the variable speed capability of the condenser.

HVAC guy disconnected Ecobee during install to replace with the Acculink but was then unable to work out how to hook the new all bells and whistles (with accompanying price tag) Tstat to the boiler. Eventually he claimed they were incompatible and I'd have to have separate TStats for the AC and Boiler (this was the message he got from the dealer he was speaking too).
Certainly there are not the right connectors on the Acculink TStat itself for such a system.

I've seen that there is a relay panel (BAY24VRPAC52DA - (DB nad DC variants exist too) that can be added to the Acculink TStat that facilitates connection to "Conventional" 24V systems.
14-1011-28_3Q_CCZS 07/01/2012 American Standard July 2012 Quick Reference Guide Comfort Controls/Zone Sensors Section (airstarsupply.com)

Install documentation at this link.

However the American Air Product document attached (page 10) for the Acculink states that the relay is suitable for boiler control but for "forced air only" - and I do not have forced air for heating (and isn't it a "furnace" if it's forced air?). Is that a real restriction - and if so why would that be?





Here is a previous thread which looks like someone was doing something similar (different Boiler brand and TStat model number). Basically I'm wondering if I can take that same route despite the manual text that claims the relay panel can support boiler system (forced air only) - I'm also intrigues as to the purpose of the additional SPST relay that was used in that solution

Current wires from my boiler are simple red and white.

Let me know if there's more information needed before a comment can be made.
Best - MT
 
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Old 10-15-21, 01:12 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

I can always comment and typically do.

A relay is used because most boiler systems have TT contacts for thermostat control. TT stands for thermostat. It does not let you know what voltage the system is and usually it's not 24vAC. It's a lower voltage and only requires a closure on the TT terminals. If you connect 24vAC to low voltage TT contacts... damage can occur. A relay isolates the systems.

I'm not familiar with the Acculink Platinum 1050 So I'll need to read up on it.
I'm guessing it's a communicating thermostat and you'd need the relay panel anyway (EIM).

In the manual it has wiring diagrams. Your boiler is shown as oil burner. Same difference as it has TT terminals. You'll notice R1 (relay) is also required.
 
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Old 10-15-21, 02:38 PM
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Thanks Pete for that explanation.

So the SPST relay is essentially protecting the boiler controls from the 24V being provided by the Relay Panel since in the SPST relay there’s no physical continuation of the circuit between the two systems. The electromagnet in the relay acts as a mechanism to close the boiler TT contacts without that physical connection. Clever!

… and I guess, with regard to the wires making contact to the boiler TT terminals it doesn’t matter if the Red wire goes to one of the T zone terminals and the other to the A1 terminal since they’re just acting as an open / close switch. The only reason I mention this is because my other option of pulling a new C wire from the boiler to an alternate thermostat (my old Ecobee) would require that the W and R wires go to their designated terminals (T zone and A1 respectively) and right now the boiler is wired the opposite way.

So that all makes sense. The last thing to work out is whether this “Forced Air only” restriction is real or not. I was wondering if perhaps the Acculink will always try to have the Air Handler kick-in whenever there’s a heat call so they’d only want that to happen if the air handler was actually involved in pushing the heat around. In that old solution I linked earlier the OP was able to change the heat mode (away from Heat Pump) so that wouldn’t happen. I haven’t checked yet to see if my more recent thermostat model had a heat mode that wouldn’t trigger the air handler at the same time.



… and if there is no such mode couldn’t I just disconnect the G during the heating months to disable it I wonder?

-MT
 
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Old 10-15-21, 02:56 PM
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and yes the Acculink is a communicating thermostat. Use of the Relay Panel is required for non-communicating systems.
Attached is the Install manual for the thermostat. I notice once there’s a mention of not using it to control non-forced air systems in section 7.10 .
 
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Old 10-15-21, 03:43 PM
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If you boiler has TT terminals..... then it is not referenced to any C (common).
In other words you cannot get a C connection from your boiler.
There again you'd need a relay. There are several of those threads running here now.
 
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Old 10-16-21, 07:51 AM
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Absolutely. I’m not contesting the need for both the Relay Panel and the SPST relay.
My question is how much stock do I put into those lines in the manual which state such a set-up can only be used for Forced-air systems. Is that really a hard no for me and my baseboard heating system? (Potentially how much damage could I do if I just tried it anyway?)
 
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Old 10-16-21, 11:03 AM
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I don't recall reading the part about forced air but I don't think that would be an issue.
That may refer to wiring if a relay wasn't used.
 
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Old 10-16-21, 01:24 PM
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My first post had an image with the reference to Forced-Air highlighted, particularly in reference to use of the Relay Panel.
I think I’m going to order the bits and try it anyway - what’s the worse that could happen? I’m sure the Earth will keep turning.
Will post back how it turns out if my fingers haven’t been blown off.
Thanks for the back and forth - I’ve got images in my head of you up at all hours scanning these forums helping out us poor souls. It’s appreciated.
All the best - MT
 
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Old 10-16-21, 01:32 PM
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I do late night spam removal too.
 
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Old 05-25-22, 09:36 AM
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MagTatster, how did this turn out for you as I pretty much have the same issue. I recently had installed this American Standard heat pump set up in my Boston region home.

AIR HANDLER (Model# TAM9A0C48V41DAB) with heater coils
AIR CONDITIONER (Model# 4A7V8048A1000BD)
AccuLink THERMOSTAT (Model# AZON1050AC52ZA) 2nd floor zone
AccuLink THERMOSTAT (Model# AZON1040AC52ZA) 1st floor zone
American Standard Relay Panel BAY24VRPAC52DC
(Basement not heated or cooled with the new heat pump system)

I have an existing hydronic baseboard heater system; Burnham Alpine ALP150B and the HTP SSU-60 water heater tank controlled via a 24VAC Taco SR504 4 zone switching relay and three old school round Honeywell mercury switch thermostats, three heating zones, basement, 1st and 2nd floors.

It looks to be that a control wire from the AS
Relay Panel BAY24VRPAC52DC (with two additional relays added to replace the thermostat switches for the 1st and 2nd floors) to the Taco SR504 switching relay would physically connect the two systems quite easily. I would have to leave the basement heating zone on standard thermostat control.

My question is; what app or software in the AccuLink 1050 can I use to control those two new relays that drive the Taco boiler control? I would like to set it up for three temp levels, one cooling and two heating as I would like the heat pump to perform the fall and spring heating and the boiler to cover the very cold winter heating. I would need to figure out those numbers to achieve the best efficiencies between heat pump vs natural gas boiler vs outside air temp but that is a different discussion, for now I just want to get the controls worked out so this is possible.

Any suggestion from the group?

Thanks


 
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Old 05-30-22, 07:10 AM
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Unhappy

Hi Chomots,
My experience was that I was ultimately unable to have the Acculink control both my communicating Air Handler/Conditioner set-up and my 24V boiler at the same time. It seemed that as soon as the Acculink detected any communicating components via the Data wire connection, then any options to control / configure the non-communicating components were greyed out / disabled. I’m trying to remember but I think that if a heat call was made under these conditions the Air Handler kicked in, with no way to prevent that, even though I have baseboard heating - I can’t actually remover if the boiler kicked in at the same time on that heat call i.e. would the relay panel convey the heat call to the boiler when the Data cable was attached.

I’m also in Boston area (well a bit further out west towards Worcester) and my set-up differs from yours in that I don’t have the heat pump elements in my Air Handler. I’m never going to be in a position where I’ll need both heating and cooling at the same time, or even need to be switching between the two on a daily/weekly basis so I’ve resolved to suffer by playing with cables twice a year.

When we start feeling the cold I go into the attic and pull the Data cable out of the relay panel, run through the Acculink set-up wizard and now my set up will be configured for Heating via the non-commmunicating boiler (note - now I have no cooling to the Zone that the Acculink controls).
In late spring I reattach the Data cable to the relay panel, run through the set-up wizard again and now I’m configured for cooling (again, now I’ve no heating to that Zone).
Definitely not an ideal solution. What I get out of this is only having to deal with 1 thermostat (and one phone app) controlling that zone. The alternatives would have been:
  1. Link everything to an Ecobee / Nest. Would work but lose all the advantages of having an expensive variable speed air handler / conditioner.
  2. Set up my boiler to its own thermostat for that Zone. For that I would have had to drag more cables through the house than I was prepared to do and I’d have to bounce between two different apps to control the systems remotely (since I wasn’t going to shell out another $1000 for a second Acculink!).
If anyone ever discovers how I can set this up differently to achieve what I need in the original post I’d love to hear it. But seems to me it would require a change to the software (Acculink or Air Handler - maybe both) and I don’t hold out any hope for that.

Good luck with your set-up. Reading your post more carefully it does seem that ultimately you’re trying do something relatively similar. I will say that if I were able to easily provide power to an Ecobee unit then I would have that installed one next to the Acculink to handle the boiler heating. If you’re able to replace your 3 Honeywells with 3 Ecobees, in addition to using the Acculinks, then I think that would serve you well. Basically for serious heating everything would run off the Ecobees and for the Cooling / Air pump heating can run off the Acculinks you already have.
 

Last edited by MagTatster; 05-30-22 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 06-06-22, 04:32 AM
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Hi MagTatster, Your comment about the software updating is exactly what I was looking to find out. I agree with you that wiring it up is an easy exercise in physically pulling wires and terminating them appropriately. Controlling that is what is currently out of reach as that take the AccuLink OEM to make those changes. In my opinion that would not be a complicated addition to their existing software package as all that is required is a simple on/off control. The hard part would be integrating it into the other control schedules effectively would require a bit of work.

I have tried to explore this conversation with American Standard and so far the only response I get from their chat bot and even submitting a case on their web page is call their dealers. I have had this discussion with the dealer that installed my system and their response is it cannot be done as it is not built in, fair enough but my point is let's explore getting this done from A/S and they do not have time for this.

So to make any headway on having a real discussion with A/S AccuLink support engineering team will take some digging as it seems to be behind a firewall that consumers cannot access.

My question to the forum group is if anyone does have some direct contact info please share as I would like to explore this idea a bit more with them and see if they would considerer it. I know we are not the only ones that can benefit from this as many people in the North East are adding these systems to their home that has traditional baseboard heating.

Chomot
 
  #13  
Old 06-06-22, 09:34 AM
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The problem with A/S is that they typically only discuss tech issues with an A/S dealer. I am not one.
 
 

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