Purchasing a new toilet

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Old 09-09-02, 06:21 PM
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Purchaseing a new toilet

I'm looking for a new toilet. What brands are best? What I don't want is one that I have to flush twice. I also not looking for a $200 or $250 model either.
Are the newer models better than the first generation 1.6 gallon units? I have heard it bothe ways yes and no. Which is it?

What should I stay away from other than $50 imports?
 
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Old 09-09-02, 06:37 PM
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videobruce,

Initially the low volume toilets that came out had a 1 1/2" ballpass trapway and some came with 2" but the way it was manufactured caused problems. Today, the new 1.6 gallon toilets have 2" traps and work very well.

Based on the "myths" that still plague the industry, many homeowners still are subject to believe rumors. Where I live, I have customers who think going to Canada to purchase a 3 + gallon toilet will resolve their issues or concerns. They pay more and then complain about their water bills! Then they call and say that they have problems and find out that the toilet has a smaller trapway which causes alot of problems as when the first 1.6 gallon units came out.

As with most products, improvements come over time, the old ways are just that, "old". You have to keep up with the times and after the manufacturers received many complaints, the redesigning has made a world of difference. Trouble is, too many still think of what was a problem and think that the problem is still here!

If you are trying to get a good toilet without spending alot of money, I have attached a link to American Standard;

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/P...&brandID=1,2,3

I personally would not go with imports due to parts replacement issues. Stay with a national brand, parts are going to wear out regardless of what you buy.

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 09-09-02, 06:48 PM
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I don't want to buy imports, but I see that A.S., Kolher and Eljer are being made in Mexico now! I also see that Gerber are still U.S. made. That is important to me.. Unlike most who shop only for price and don't care where it is made, I do! I don't want a $200 toilet either.

How is Gerber? What is the trapway size, is it 2" or 1 1/2"? How about unglazed vs glazed trapways? I know they are a lower price unit.

I'm looking for 2 piece round, but I don't know if I want to spend the extra $50 on a 14" rough-in since that's what's there now (acually it needs a 15").
 
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Old 09-09-02, 07:38 PM
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Videobruce,

Since you are providing some limitations to your selections based on your requirements, the best thing I can recommend is to go shopping.

Glazed or unglazed
All should have 2" trapways
2" drain or 2 1/2" minimum
12", 14" setups
Compare the costs and select.

Search the web for the manufacturers that you are interested in. When I say imports, I am referring to European brands. I realize that toilets are made in Mexico but the brand is U.S. based.

http://www.gerberonline.com/specifications/

http://shop.toohome.com/html/products/product_18832.asp
Ultra Flush® Round Toilet 14"

You try a Toto brand 1.6 gallon - It is a 12" but 100% glazed with a 5 year warranty;

http://www.homeclick.com/showpage.asp?itemid=7117

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 09-10-02, 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Doug Aleshire


Search the web for the manufacturers that you are interested in. When I say imports, I am referring to European brands. I realize that toilets are made in Mexico but the brand is U.S. based.



Tell that to the workers that lost their jobs that use to make toilets!!!
 
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Old 09-10-02, 11:19 AM
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I have done research and I wanted to know how important the glazing or more important, the lack of glazing in the trapway is.
My ckoice is between A.S., Kohler, Eljer and Gerber. Gerber seems to be the only ones made in the U.S. but I question their lower prices......are they at the 'contractor grade' level? Kohler seems to be on the pricey side.

The documentation doesn't mention the diameter of the Gerber toliet trapways.
 
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Old 09-16-02, 11:57 AM
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I bought a Gerber Ultra-Flush two years ago (Cost was about $220.00). It's a little noisy, but it has been great. My wife's 300+ pound Aunt has yet to create problems (which she did on a regular basis with old toilet). I have since replaced the other two toilets with the Gerber Ultra-Flush and have been very happy.

At the time we bought the Gerber Ultra-Flush. (Sept 2000), it was rated Number-One by Consumer Reports. Their new ratings just came out today, and the Gerber is still neck and neck with the other two top rated toilets.

I have been very pleased with the Gerber. A friend of mine at work has the Briggs toilet and he swears by it.

You can get all this online at www.consumerreports.org (but you have to subscribe to get the actual ratings). I have cut and pasted consumerreport's comments for their top three choices down below.

Now do any of you folks have experience with the refiinishing of fiberglass tubs or fiberglass shower bases ? I have a fiberglass shower base that either needs to be refinished or replaced. Any comments would be most welcome. I am going to start a thread on this in a few minutes.

Thanks !

RamblinWreck - Sept., 2002.



*******************
Consuer Report's Ratings are below
******************


Briggs Vacuity 4200
A CR Best Buy

$190
Very good overall.

American Standard Cadet PA 2333.100
450
Very good overall. Mold and mildew can grow in stagnant water below pressure-assist tank. Very good at minimizing soil and odor in bowl.

Gerber Ultra Flush 21-302
280
Very good overall. Mold and mildew can grow in stagnant water below pressure-assist tank. Round-front bowl. Very good at minimizing soil and odor in bowl.
 
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Old 09-16-02, 12:19 PM
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I did see the Consumer Reports for October which I subscribe too. Funny, that came out BEFORE I bought the unit, not 2 months after. It was a excellant guide!

I didn't want a vacuum or pressure assist toilet.

The Gerber one I looked at is last on the list. Unfortunately, it is the only one of the big 4 (A.S, Kohler and Eljer) that is made in the U.S.!!! All the others are made in Mexico!

Notice that the enlongated and the round versions of the same toilet from A.S, Kohler and Gerber all tested differently, but not consistently between the 2 versions as far as effectiveness!

I think I am going with the A.S. round Cadet. Home Depot has it for $100.

I can't see spending $250 and above just to take a s...!

Besides, I don't live in a $200,000 yuppie house in suburbia that has to have a $10,000 bathroom like you see on those home improvement shows!
 
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Old 09-16-02, 01:22 PM
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I understand about not wanting to spend a ton of money on a toilet. The only reason I added to this discussion thread was just to give you some first hand, "real world" input (which I thought might help).

However, my wife's Aunt kept plugging our existing toilet and I was at my wit's end. At the time, the Gerber was NO. 1 as rated by consumer reports. Hence, I forked over the money as I did not want to have anymore problems. (It also didn't hurt that the Gerber is made in the US.) All I can say is that I have not had any problems since I put the darn thing in.

It's funny that the Briggs and Gerber models grade differently now than they did four years ago (last time Gerber was better than Briggs. the opposite this time). It know that its probably manufacturing variations over time (as well as different test criteria), but I am also surprised that consumerreports did not address this.

I also found your comments about the round vs elongated bowl interesting.

Anyway, good luck with your AS toilet.

RamblinWreck
 
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Old 09-17-02, 06:33 AM
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Thank you for your input.

The fact that Gerber is the only toilet that is still made here was a BIG plus, BUT the test kinda kills that choice.

I guess the un-glazed smaller trayway must make a difference.

Look at the difference between the round and enlongated bowls of the different makes! I would understand if there is a pettern, BUT there isn't. Just another wrench in the works!
 
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Old 09-22-02, 05:46 PM
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Red face $10,000 bathroom ??

Thats 1/2 what I paid for my whole HOUSE !!!
 
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Old 09-23-02, 04:15 AM
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Guess you don't live in super suburbia or watch HGTV!
 
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Old 09-23-02, 06:24 AM
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Red face Sponsors

Yes HGTV also has every tool avalible to mankind.
All of course paid for by the sponsors of the show.
Must be nice for those of us living in the real world LOL
 
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Old 03-28-04, 01:57 PM
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A.S Champion or Kohler Wellworth

I'm on the cusp of purchasing a new toilet, and have two contenders at present, the American Standard Champion for $250, or the Kohler Wellworth at $100.

Reading the hype about the Champion, it seems to be much better than everything else in terms of one flush effectiveness, but the Wellworth has an excellent reputation from recommendations I've seen so far on the DIY forum.

This is not going into anything of a fancy designer bathroom, so I'm more interested in the practical aspects of it. They're both standard 1.6 gpf, so water usage isn't a factor. The Champion has that flapperless flush valve which supposedly improves upon the flapper type, and has a 10 year warranty.
It still uses the Fluidmaster 400A fill valve, a type which I recently had dealings with on my current toilet, when it just stopped stopping all of a sudden, with no warning. Though it lasted 4 years from when it was installed, it makes me a bit leery, the way it just failed all of a sudden.
I'm not sure what the Kohler uses, but I'd just as soon give another design a try for that.

My current toilet has problems with clogging, needing multiple flushes when encountering "big loads", so I'm just looking for something more up to date, and water saving to boot.
Are the differences between the Kohler and the A.S enough to warrant a difference in price of $150?

Any first hand experience with these that might help sway me one way or another?


edit: Decided on the Kohler; price tag was just too far apart for me to resist the cheaper option...
We'll see if it's up to the task-

Got a wax-free seal for the installation; seemed like it might be a good idea, the way it could be reset if necessary.
 

Last edited by trendar; 03-28-04 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 03-29-04, 07:58 AM
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I bought two American Standard Cadet toilets (one for the upper where I live and one for the lower).
NO problem with flushing AND they are adjustable as far as how much water the tank can hold! You can fill up that tank AND have a longer flush if you want. It isn't restricted to 1.6 gallons!

Real nice setup!
 
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Old 03-29-04, 10:47 AM
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I have installed about 4 TOTO Drake model toilets.


Only toilet with a 3" flush valve assembly.

With a larger flush valve, it operates with a harder force of water to flush, rather than the normal toilets, and do a great job on removing large exfoiliations. < Is that right?
 
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Old 03-29-04, 12:48 PM
trendar
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TOTO was also highly regarded, but it didn't seem as readily available locally from the HD/Lowes places, so I didn't get much further on them.

I saw the American Standard Cadet at Lowes; that was priced the same as the Kohler too, and it included all the items like seat to boot- That might have been a good option too, but hopefully the Kohler will meet with success also..
 
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Old 03-30-04, 05:46 AM
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I got the Cadets from a plumbing supply house. The versions Home Depot sold were made in Mexico. The ones from the supply house were made in the USA! About the same price!
 
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Old 03-30-04, 08:22 AM
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Interesting- I wonder if that's the case in general between HD and plumbing supply houses?
The Kohler I bought says "Crafted in USA"; whether that means made in USA or not, I'm not sure- Could mean designed in USA and manufactured elsewhere, I suppose.
 
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Old 03-31-04, 05:23 AM
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It could be also the part of the country or the time it was purchesed!
Things that were American made a couple of years ago aren'y anymore.

Thanks Mr. Reagan/Bush!
 
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