Hi guys,

In a bathroom in a house I just bought, there is a toilet and a shower. I am removing the shower. I want to put the toilet where the shower is right now. This may sound dumb, but since I know NOTHING about plumbing, how do I do this? What should I expect to see? What are the proper steps? Thanks, fellas!

Chris

 

With the floor open, take some pictures post them somewhere, so we can see what you need to do.

 

Very cool. As soon as I rip out the shower, I will post pics on my webserver and provide links here. Thx.

Chris

 

Question???

Isn't the two sewage lines seperate?

If the toilet backs up, it is not suppose to flood into showers, tubs and or sinks, etc.

Lines for toilets, aren't they seperated?????

 

Don't ask me, man. I'm a computer guy! I'll post pics when I take the bathroom apart. Then we'll see what we're dealing with. I'll also have my dad (an all around DIY'er) helping, so between him and you guys, I'll get it done. Thanks!

Chris

 

Hi: Chris

Question not intended directly to you. But it is food for thought.
The licsened plumbers would know if interconnecting the two seperated lines is legal and or code.

In RV'ing, there are two seperate waters. Sewage and generic waste water. Same applies to houses, etc.

Or so it seems. Upon construction, the two lines are seperated. thus toilets are not plumbed into sinks, tubs, showers and or sinks.

Toilet lines must flow directly into the main sewage lines. Which the connection can be on the property outside the house but not interconnected beneath the slab or any where in the house.

We both shall learn the answer when the diy plumbing pros inform us.... Codes may vary depending on locals.

 

Movement of the fixtures is capable of being done, but you will have to do some considerable pipe replacement to do so.


You cannot drain a toilet off of 1.5" or 2".


The 3" that serves the toilet will have to be directed to the location you want, keeping in mind that the distance of flange to vent must be kept to code, even if it means turning up a vent in a wall in close proximity.


The shower drain will have to either be wye-branched off of the 3" that comes across for the toilet, but only if the toilet is vented FIRST.

The shower take-off will also have to be vented, normally in one of the partitions that serve as the wall for shower unit.


Keep in mind, the distances from fixture openings to vent are code issues, and I am sure that there will be numerous changes.


The pictures can help considerably, but to actually see the whole scenario, I would remove the drywall up to 5 feet to see how the vents tied into the main stack.


And one thing I left out, most cases, your going to be destroying numerous joists by taking out a considerable amount of wood to get 3" across the floor. Your best bet is to use a street vent 90 coming off the flange to keep the hole for 3" as close to the top as possible.

I am not a carpenter, but they might think structurally it might be better to keep the hole in the middle, which is a 3 9/16" bore.


Sounds like fun don't it?


On the issue of clogging, if there is a clog below where the fixtures are connected to the main drain stack, you can easily have raw sewage back up into the shower lines. No way to really prevent this issue, but it happens. But there are times when the trap arm is isolated and clogged, whereby the shower is clogged, but you can flush the toilet or run the sink, and the clog is unaffected by the movement of water.


Makes for an easy drain cleaning job since the issue is the trap arm, probably less than 10 feet. Easy job in the drain cleaning profession.

 

Hi Dunbar

So it is okay or is it not okay (????) to interconnect toilet drain lines into the plumbing lines of sinks, showers and tubs within the house?

Pipe diameter or size aside.

I thought toilets can only be connected to the main sewage line after it leaves the house in front of the house into the one single sewage line going to the street or septic system.

That part still not clear....
Kindly explain.

 

What your describing as far as toilets only would be in the case on a septic system where the toilet would run to the septic tank, and all others such as lavatories, sinks, laundry tubs, would run separate as a dedicated grey water line.


I am assuming that this person is on a city sewer main, not considering grey water system.


On city sewer systems, all ties into the same, they will not let you run grey water when city sewers are in the neighborhood.


I guess it is worth mentioning though about the grey water drains, but all in all, that toilet is ran in minimum 3" and the main drain stack, if separated by grey water specs, would only be 2" maximum. This wouldn't allow the connection into the stack for a toilet.



Plumbing inspectors in my area are starting to shy away from grey water systems because of what people dump down sinks and laundry tubs, and you must have a dedicated blue-line creek that this eventually leads to in order to install one of these.


Blue-line creeks are specified by geographical maps that are published by companies like Rand-McNally. Blue-line usually leads to a permanent larger known waterway that will eventually lead to a well-known river.


The only reason I know this was through investigation of a lot that was too low for a pumping station that we were interested in, and a blue-line creek was 400 feet away. The cost of building a pump system to get to the station was horribly expensive, with the view of sewers coming in the next ten years.


We got the permission to allow grey water, but this was in 1990, and the homeowner's association killed the idea since there was opposition from the homeowner's that this setup was doomed for failure for the fact of low-lying areas, along with flash-floods.

We ended up not buying. Lot was bought by adjoining neighbor and its resting place was a picnic table next to the creek and walk bridge.

 

Sharp, are you trying to hijack my thread?! How dare you! LOL, j/k, Mr. Admin.

I'm learning a lot here, and Dunbar, I am on city sewer, yes.

I'll take some pics tomorrow and post links to them here so you guys can help guide me through this cucca.

Thanks!

Chris

 

Got it. Thanks.

Out this way, toilets are piped seperately in the house. Which means in a slab or under a raised foundation.

The connection between the two seperate piping lines are than jointed outside the house, in the yard, in the main line going to the street sewage line.

The street run of water in the gutter is going down the storm drain lines. These lines empty into the storm drains which dump directly into the ocean. Since I live on the coast where beaches exist.

Thus two lines in the street. Street run off and sewage lines. Sewage lines go into the treatment plants, get treated and than empty far off the coastline.

Treatment of sewage essentially converts it to clean water. Than pumped out to sea via pipe lines from sewage treatment plants to offshore via underground lines.

Summation:
Sewage lines seperated in house.
Joined in main line in front yard (or backyard, whichever applies).
Main line in yard to street.
Street line to sewage treatment plant.
Treatment plant to ocean.

Street run off water into (seperated from sewage lines) storm drains, (man made rivers) which dump directly into ocean.

In the above case, contaimination of street water in any way is prohibited. Heavy fines can be obtained for dumping in street. Any liquids or solids which can contaminate, pollute or is considered to be a hazardous product or material.

BTW:
Thank you Chris for allowing this aspect of the post. Informative I hope for you as it was for us.
Thanks Dunbar. Sharing we all learn more...

 

Thanking ME? It's your forum, Sharp, not mine! You can do with the threads as you please. I was just taking a joking shot at the big man on campus. Couldn't resist!

Chris

 

Hi: Chris

Shots are fine....so long as they are either joking or whiskey shots.....HAHAHA..... Either will do or a shot of "BREW"...will do 2.

Forums are not mine per say. I just manage the joint...
But don't tell anybody...LOL!

Actually, I saw the chance to learn more and hope others do as well. Thanks for bring up the subject of converting a shower drain to a toilet drain. Learned a lot too.

From a pro no less. Thanks Dunbar.
Moto: Want professional advice...ask a pro.
I did and I got pro advice and insight too.

Never even thought of drain size. But the true "Big Man" in all of this is the plumber pro who helped us to learn more.

Rules, codes and methods do vary. All based on area location in the country and types of systems. City verus septic. Inland or coastal.

Thus, my "High-Jacking" your question to learn more and provided more insight to all, I thank you also.

"My 2 Cents"

Thanks Chris and Thanks Dunbar.

 

Your exactly right on the separation of sanitary from storm.


The mixing of the two, combinations sewer systems are only common in densely populated urban areas where the likes are blacktop, rooftops, and concrete.


In Covington and Cincinnati, the urban areas have a mix of both systems. When major redevelopment is done, they switch to separate systems to prevent the overload of the sewer systems, which happens during heavy downfalls. They probably will never completely eliminate all the combination systems, too costly. It's bad enough they cannot keep the streets smooth, let alone ripping them up and installing storm sewers.


In Cincinnati, a great deal of house traps still exist, which can be a drain cleaner's nightmare if your not aware of this. Back in the day, one trap served all the floor drains in the basement. Most were buried outside with no ability to find the 2 cleanouts, not unless you happen to send the cable out hard enough to knock off the cap and trim the bushes free of charge.

 

Got it D.

The two in house lines system:

Out this way, drain lines in houses have cleanouts too. Usually on the exteriors where the kitchens, bathrooms and laundy rooms are. If not, inside on a wall about 12 inches up from the floor.

Other places may be in basements, overhead or in the slabs. Basements are not commonly found here though. May have to due with the climate zone and earthquakes, etc.

Bathrooms do not usually have toilet cleanouts. Cleanouts require bowl removal or access through the roof vents. Thus the lines for the gray water have wall or outside cleanouts readily available but not the toilet lines.

Thus most houses, public buildings, apartments, etc have the main sewage cleanout lines between the foundations and the street city lines.

Usually the main line cleanouts are about ten feet out from the foundations. Not usually visable traps but they are there. If access is needed, plumbers often pull the original floor plans at the city office. Than proceed to dig up your yard...

Once the main cleanout is located, it than can be rise to ground level, at the cost to the customer at that time...

Different ways and methods, all for the same end results.

 

Hi fellas,

I'm on my laptop at the new house where all this is happening. I've torn out the shower and hopper, and everything is clear. I've also taken pisctures, but I won't be able to upload them to the web til I get home tonight. Suffice it to say that, for now, where the toilet WAS had a 4" drain, and the shower ahs a 2" drain. So, I take it that I will have to run a 4" drain to the new toilet location (where the shower was)?

Chris

 

You can run the new toilet line in 3"

 

Yep, that's what I'm going to do. I'm removing the 2" shower drain pipe altogether. I'll post more later. Let me add, though, that I have a newfound repect for plumbers!

Chris

 

Here are some pics. Unfortunately, nothing really good or useful, I don't think, but you guys be the judge.

http://www.bartlett-family.net/temp/

Yeah, the shower had a 2" drain and my father wasn't sure if that would work or not. Based on DUNBAR's advice earlier, we know that it isn't, so we are hacking out the 2" drain pipe and replacing it with a 3". We've found all the plumbing, know what to do, and will attack it when we can over the next few weeks. You guys were awesome and told me what I needed to know. Thanks!

Chris

 

The picture on the bottom of the page, really shows me nothing, need more details, need to see the actual pipes.

 

It's all good, P2K. I got it figured out and you guys were invaluable! I am removing the old 2" drain from where the shower used to be and replacing it with a 3" drain pipe for the toilet. I am running that directly into where the current toilet's 3" pipe is. I'm also removing a lot of excess pipe. I think I'm all set. I'm going to post the entire project on the web and I'll post links later. Unfortunately, I can only work on it on weekends, so it will be another week until I can show you guys more.

I think I'm all set! Thanks!

Chris