American Standard Champion 4 Toilet-any better?

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  #1  
Old 02-22-08, 08:31 PM
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American Standard Champion 4 Toilet-any better?

Greetings,

I just purchased a brand spanking new 2008 model Champion 4 two-piece toilet with a round bowl--I think it is a 2007 model. The tank is model 4266, and it has the newer flush valve. Unfortunately, I bought it before reading all about the negative reviews and infamous reputation of the Champion line, that pesky class-action lawsuit thing, etc....fortunately, it's all still in the box and uninstalled. Now, most of the bad reviews, it seems, appear to apply to the somewhat older Champion models, from about 2005 and before, without the designation "Champion 4"--I can't find much on the most recent models--one bad review specifically referred to the tank model 4260. It appears that the toilet might possibly have been resigned? Has American Standard, in fact, made any recent improvements in the "Champion 4" to address the issues--the leaking flush valve, the ill-fitting, wobbly tank that leaks where it attaches to the bowl, etc.? I can't get an honest answer from most of the usual dealership sites, even less from the American Standard sites, but what I want to know, is there any reason at all why I shouldn't just toss the whole thing right back into the car and drive it back to Lowes to exchange it? Thanks!

Rory

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  #2  
Old 02-23-08, 05:15 AM
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Over the years, I have had really good luck with Kohler, comparably priced and few or no problems. But I think the American Standard Cadet series are OK. Why take chances that the one you bought is a troublemaker??
 
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Old 02-23-08, 07:44 AM
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For bathrooms that get minimal use, I always buy the Cadet series. They're inexpensive and functional. Probably can't flush a bowlful of golf balls - but in a basement half bath and the like - they're perfect.
 
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Old 02-23-08, 02:19 PM
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What might you recommend in the same price range ($200-$300) for the only toilet for a family of three? What about the American Standard Cadet would not be advisable for a much-used toilet?
Thanks!
 
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Old 02-23-08, 04:15 PM
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My biggest complaint with the Cadet ($120ish complete) is that the tank/flush cycle seems to require holding the handle through the cycle to get a good flush. If you press and release - it seems to be a bit less adaquate. The overflow system that comes with it keeps the tank level at about half full - and putting in a taller overflow pipe might help alleviate that issue.... but since we rarely use them.... it's not worth the trouble. I've installed about 6 of them in the past 3 years (fix n flipper) - and have had no complaints from buyers/users.....
 
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Old 02-23-08, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by uproar View Post
What might you recommend in the same price range ($200-$300) for the only toilet for a family of three? What about the American Standard Cadet would not be advisable for a much-used toilet?
Thanks!
I have always had good luck with Kohler Wellworth model. In both baths, family of four (5-7 year olds) wife and myself. I install quite a bit of them as well for customers. "You get what you pay for" holds a lot of water here...oops, sorry.
 
  #7  
Old 02-24-08, 03:14 PM
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Just installed a Champion in my own home,it was one I had in stock with the older,problematic, flush tower.....I changed it out for the new type flush valve that my supplier is giving away free with the return of the older model flush valve..I am quite happy actually with the performance thus far!! As for the "rocking" tank thing, you just have to tighten it enough to make contact with the bowl trusting that it wont crack
 
  #8  
Old 03-01-08, 04:54 AM
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champion 4

I just purchased 3 of these, One installed so far. I don't know if there is still the problem with the leaking gasket however the tank does NOT fit the bowl. It leans forward, wobbles and the plumber has tried twice to get it to sit right. He says the gasket is too thick and tightening anymore might crack the tank or bowl. I am very disappointed.
 
  #9  
Old 04-05-08, 07:44 AM
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still leaking "improved" champion toilet

Had the original Champion toilet that started leaking after 5 months. Was told to tighten the bolts evenly as tank was "wobbly"; apparently, that WASN'T the problem as the tank cracked. Made the mistake of replacing the tank with another Champion -- with the "improved" flush tower (stamped June, 2007 inside the tank) in September, 2007. Thought "improved" and "new" meant something -- silly me. Five months later, the leak is back, and the tank is refilling itself every 10-15 minutes - can't wait to see what my water bill will be this month! (thick with sarcasm) Definitely calling AS on Monday morning. Will update after that.

Anybody familiar with the class action lawsuit that was filed by a NJ attorney in August, 2007?
 
  #10  
Old 03-04-09, 03:50 PM
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Smile Champion 4 Success - Maybe

I have two Champion 4 products. The newer one is one year old, with the new flush valve and blue seal. It has given no problems - yet.

The other is about 5 years old according to the documentation date - cannot find my receipt and may or may not have registered either online. I still have the yellow registration cards for both.

The older version, Model 2023, with tank #4260 on several occasions has started running or running start/top. It uses the tall white tower with red seal. I seem to have corrected the start/stop by replacing the black seal in the Flowmaster and now and then if I turn the red seal over, that solves the constant running - for awhile from a few days to a few months. I have found that Lowes sells the red seal made by PlumbPak, at AS. I have only replaced it twice in the five years. Oddly Home Depot where the unit was bought, does not sell them.

I determined that with shipping a new replacement tower would end up being about $36. Before doing that I called AS. It took 10 minutes on hold, but the Help person was very helpful. Some have said all AS will do is send you a new seal for the old tower - NOT TRUE. NOTE: I did not have proof of warranty on the old unit. I explained my problem and she immediately said, "I need to send you out one of the new tower models!" I then mentioned the possibility that the seal on the newer model tank might need a seal in the near future. No problem, she added that to the "Free" order which is in the mail. Please note, all this was done before asking for my name and address - No warranty discussion. Apparently, however, if you want an AS seal, you have to call them. I would just tell them it is within the warranty period if you need the blue seal. Ordering a seal online gets costly when you add in shipping and handling. Asked AS first!

You do have to take the tank off to replace it, naturally, but that does not need a plumber if you have a few basic tools.

Over the years, I have had more problems with FlowMasters than anything as I have replaced old float balls in tanks. In general that can be handled fairly easily with those little black seals, but they seldom seem to last more than 18 months.

The Champion 4 did come with lots of promises and I am very pleased with its operation, when it does not leak. Will be interesting to see how long the seal lasts on the new style flush valve. I do not use any chemicals in the tank per their directions.

At this point, I would hardly toss the units out for some other brand. I think the new flush valve may have fixed the problem.
 
  #11  
Old 06-11-09, 11:28 AM
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as champ4 leak

i'm not sure if i have found a long term solution to my leaking valve or not, but i added a weight to the top of the valve and so far it has stopped leaking
 
  #12  
Old 06-13-09, 05:57 PM
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I've installed "numerous" AS4 toilets without hardly any problems, leaks or callbacks.

Their new flush valve fixed a whole host of problems that the former Champion 3 was so prone to have.
 
  #13  
Old 01-06-10, 06:26 PM
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Champion 4 flush valve

I've recently discovered that all of the American Standard toilets, I had installed, have the tall white cylindrical shaped flush valve and that they are all defective. I contacted American Standard and explained my problem and they shipped the replacement valves. It is a very different configuration. Squat, grey, green lid with a blue gasket. I'm replacing the first one tomorrow. It appears to be a simple switchout after removing the tank.
 
  #14  
Old 01-12-10, 05:40 PM
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found the leak on my champion 4

My 2007 C4 with recent valve leaks after 5 months. I replaced valve. Same result. Discovered the plastic wing nut that the chain attaches to is loose - on both valve assemblies. This nut holds the top and bottom halves of the valve float tight against the blue seal. If the nut is loose, water leaks around the seal. The top half of the valve body has "tabs" to keep the nut from turning, but there's nothing to keep the plastic shaft underneath from turning except friction. So I figure either flushing gradually loosens the shaft (hence the nut), or the shaft is creeping under load with the same result. I tightened the nut. Leak is gone. I'll know in a few months if it loosens again. Then try some locker on the threads.
 
  #15  
Old 02-01-10, 10:27 PM
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Good roofing benefit

actually roofing is very important thing Roofing is good no leakage no water same to another wall or behind wall using formula Beer 4U2Beer 4U2
 
  #16  
Old 11-27-10, 12:31 PM
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One of the issues with the tank fastening is that only two nuts are supplied to tighten the tank to the bowl. If the two nuts are not tightened sufficiently, the tank wobbles on the bowl and the seals at the bolts shift, allowing leaking at the tank bolts. To fix this problem, I installed the tanks using four nuts, two fastening the bolts with their seals firmly to the tank and two to fasten the tank to the bowl which I did firmly, but not so much as to crack the tank.
 

Last edited by GAAlleycat; 11-27-10 at 12:35 PM. Reason: wrong word
  #17  
Old 12-29-10, 08:52 PM
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yet another leaking flush valve on a champion 4

I installed this toilet in Nov 2007. It has a date on it from earlier in the year. It's model 4266. It has the black flush assembly with the blue valve flapper. About 9 months ago, (yes I'm a procrastinator), it started refilling itself every couple of hours. The small leak appears to be with the flapper, as if I push down on it the audible leak goes away. Someone mentioned putting a weight on it, and I think this might fix it. What about my other options? I could get a new flush assembly for 24 bucks or maybe just a new flapper? Would contacting AS be a waste of time, being that it is over 3 years old?
 
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Old 05-06-11, 03:06 PM
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I called American Standard finally, and after a couple of minutes on hold talked to a customer service person who was polite and said they would ship me a new flapper seal (blue) and a new flush lever, since both had failed. The champion 4 has a 10 year warranty. They didn't do anything to verify the warranty and said the parts would arrive in 5-7 business days.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 03:59 PM
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Ain't it great when companies honor their warranties without question? Nice.
Now let's get your timeline correct, here. I note your post of 12/10 stated you had been procrastinating for 9 months about fixing it. Now it is 5 months later and you are finally making the call . Whoa, you are a procrastinator elite!! Take care, glad you are on the way to getting it fixed.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 10:28 AM
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Procrastination played a part, but the problem was intermittent meaning it would slowly leak for a while causing the valve to operate once every hour or so, and then there would be a time when the gasket would seat properly and it wouldn't leak. The last straw was the flush handle breaking (again). My temporary fix was far from perfect and so I was able to squeak in a call after getting the kids fed and before heading to work.
 
  #21  
Old 12-14-11, 09:03 PM
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Not any better....

I purchased a Champion 4 (2585.000ST) from Home Depot in 2010. I installed it in my sister's home, and I was suspicious of the installation from the start. It is a very user-friendly, no-tools installation, but the fit at the tank to bowl is very poor at best. Like many people who have purchased this model, I did not tighten the two tank bolts to the point where the tank sits flush on the bowl surface. Had I done this, I would've cracked the tank since the rubber gasket was way too thick. The tank gasket is formed to seal against the hex shaped flush-valve nut, so I could not buy a "generic" substitute to experiment with various thicknesses. As I suspected, one of the tank bolts started leaking in 2 months. After repeated tightening by my brother-in-law, I've started experimenting with different seals to solve the problem.
The name of the company is AMERICAN STANDARD. Get it ? I really don't care if their customer service is second to none, or if they warranty this thing for twenty years. The next one will be a Kohler. Period.
 
  #22  
Old 12-24-11, 01:38 AM
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What I keep reading over and over on this thread is the tank wobble.


"Tank Wobble" is something that causes no issues as long as the tank to bowl bolts are firmly snugged and incapable of not leaking through the washers inside the tank.


A toilet is not a chair with a backrest. It's meant for people to sit down on it, any toilet and do your business and get up.

Leaning back on any toilet is setting the wheels in motion for disaster as it puts stress points on the heads of those bolt heads along with the porcelain.

Hard cranking any tank to bowl bolts can lead to those tanks abruptly breaking when no one is around to shut the water off. Most if not all toilets are free standing, meaning they do not utilize the wall directly behind them anymore.

Keep your occupants from using the toilet as a lazyboy recliner... that's a good start in plumbing 101.
 
 

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