leaking toilet, need help to find it


  #1  
Old 06-08-10, 01:32 PM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: denver, co
Posts: 15
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
leaking toilet, need help to find it

Hi all,

I'm an average do it yourselfer, having installed/help installed maybe a half dozen toilets...so not a lot...but enough to get myself in trouble (e.g. to think I know what I'm doing).

I recently installed a brand new toilet on a brand new toilet flange (Cast Iron Flange Replacement :: Oatey.com) which was pushed inside of a 1940 lead 4inch pipe. The flange was securely attached to the concrete floor (tapcons).

I used one of the wax rings with a built in plastic flange to set the toilet.

Anyways, to get down to it. Since this is the first toilet I've set by myself (others helped/guided previously), I didn't caulk between the tile and bowl so I could see if I had any leaks.

After I set the bowl w/o the tank I ran a garden hose in it for 20 minutes without any water. So I then set the tank on and after no leaks seen after 30 min from the tank (either at the water inlet connection or and the bowl/tank connection) I assumed I had a good install.

Fast foward a full day and I see a small but obvious pool of water coming from the underside of the toilet. I mop up the pool and repeat the hose test...this time for 30min...still no water showing up.

Insert here a bunch of other things I did to try and isolate it to no avail. I checked closely for any water from the inlet valve or the bowl/tank junction possible causing this leak.

Basically does anyone have any idea what's going on here?

Full disclosure:
1. the old lead pipe had a flange of itself, which I beat flat with a hammer before setting the new proper flange with holes to mount the toilet to. This old flange caused the new one to not be perfectly level..I assumed a new wax ring would account for any issues here....
2. This toilet is in the basement and my main sewer stack runs directly behind it in the wall. Now I'm beginning to triple guess myself and wonder if somehow flushing the upstairs toilet could somehow be causing the water to appear below...s
3. yes the wax ring was over 70 degrees when I set it.


Basically I have no issue pulling the toilet off if need be and honestly that's my next step if I dont hear any magical words here to solve my issue, to verify the wax ring did indeed appear to be sealed correctly...of course once that's done I will then have to clean all the old wax up and install a new ring....

thanks for any help you can offer..

Kirk
 
  #2  
Old 06-08-10, 04:25 PM
W
Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: San Diego Ca. USA
Posts: 984
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Upvotes on 11 Posts
Hi, Leaks are hard to find because water is clear and you can't see it. Try putting newspaper on the floor around the toilet. Leaks will show up on the paper and sort of direct you to the area the leaks in.
Good Luck Woodbutcher
 
  #3  
Old 06-09-10, 08:28 AM
L
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Undetectable leaks

I understand your frustration! Toilet leaks are often unable to be detected because they cannot be seen or heard. I found a product called the LeakAlertor that automatically detects toilet leaks and I did not need any tools to install it. When you have a toilet leak (from the tank into the bowl, typically due to a faulty flapper), the unit will blink red and beep to alert you. I bought it on the company's website, wwww.leakalertor.com. Good luck!
 
  #4  
Old 06-09-10, 11:51 AM
shacko's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Baltimore County Maryland
Posts: 2,002
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Did you test your toilet by flushing it? running water into the bowl only isn't going to give you a good test.

That flange that you used should not be used in lead pipe; lead is soft and crooked, its almost impossible to get a good seal when using the two.

Get yourself some food coloring and put it into the tank, flush and look for color, that may help locate your leak.
 
  #5  
Old 06-12-10, 08:47 PM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: denver, co
Posts: 15
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shacko
Did you test your toilet by flushing it? running water into the bowl only isn't going to give you a good test.

That flange that you used should not be used in lead pipe; lead is soft and crooked, its almost impossible to get a good seal when using the two.

Get yourself some food coloring and put it into the tank, flush and look for color, that may help locate your leak.
What flange should I be using instead? While I've ripped out most of the lead out of my sewer system and replaced with PVC and fernco's, I don't look forward to breaking out all the concrete in my basement bathroom to replace the lead stub-out for the toilet from my main line cast iron pipe...

when I jammed the flange in, it seems to seal well...and even if it didn't, it's all gravity fed at the point where that seal would fail (e.g. it's 4 inches below the top of the lead pipe), and it seems like the only thing that might escape are sewer gases if it ever did fail...not actually water...though I'm quite open to being shown the errors of my thinking...

Update: The leak occurs even if the toilet hasn't been flushed....the water in the tank stays constant (turned the water to it off)...not 100% on the water level in the bowl changing or not...less to measure it off of.

I like the food dye idea and will try it....wondering if I maybe have a hair line crack from my bowl allowing water to leak out to the floor....
 
  #6  
Old 06-13-10, 11:38 AM
shacko's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Baltimore County Maryland
Posts: 2,002
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ibmkid
What flange should I be using instead? While I've ripped out most of the lead out of my sewer system and replaced with PVC and fernco's, I don't look forward to breaking out all the concrete in my basement bathroom to replace the lead stub-out for the toilet from my main line cast iron pipe...

when I jammed the flange in, it seems to seal well...and even if it didn't, it's all gravity fed at the point where that seal would fail (e.g. it's 4 inches below the top of the lead pipe), and it seems like the only thing that might escape are sewer gases if it ever did fail...not actually water...though I'm quite open to being shown the errors of my thinking...

Update: The leak occurs even if the toilet hasn't been flushed....the water in the tank stays constant (turned the water to it off)...not 100% on the water level in the bowl changing or not...less to measure it off of.

I like the food dye idea and will try it....wondering if I maybe have a hair line crack from my bowl allowing water to leak out to the floor....
If you didn't leave at least one inch of lead above the floor you are stuck with what you have; usually you can replace those flanges by getting a new one (they are made out of brass) and folding the lead across the top, and securing it to the floor.

Sewer gas is something that is permeated with all the diseases know to man, plus methane that can build up to the point of explosion, if you ever have them it's not something to put off to later (IT NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED RIGHT AWAY).

If you have a crack in the toilet the food coloring should show it, luck.
 
  #7  
Old 08-04-10, 09:14 PM
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: denver, co
Posts: 15
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
For those who might stumle on this via a searxh, the leak was at between the base and the wax ring as a very slow drip. The wax ring didn't bond to the base of toiler as well as it should have...cleaning the base with rubbing alcohol resolved the issue with a new wax ring.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: