Space between wall & toilet

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Old 07-16-10, 07:28 AM
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Space between wall & toilet

Hi all,

Recently, I installed a new two-piece AM Standard Champion-4 model toilet. The rough-in was set for 12" from the finished drywall (well, technically, it came out to be 12.75", but you get the point).

The toilet is in, the tank bolts are tightened so that the tank is sitting straight on the bowl and hitting the built-in stops on both the lower front/back. I have no leaks and it seem to be working fine.

The problem is the gap between the back of the tank and the wall...it's 2.75" and a bit unsightly. I can understand having a little bit of a gap due to my rough-in dimensions not being spot-on. But an extra 2" beyond the rough-in has me scratching my head. Photos of this debacle can be viewed here: Toilet Install pictures by atscanlon - Photobucket.

Being that this is my first toilet install, I fully admit I may have done something incorrectly, although I followed the instructions and double-checked that this model is designed for the standard 12" rough-in. Can any of you with far more experience than myself lend some ideas on what might be the problem, or ways I might be able to snug it up to the wall a bit more?

As always, thanks for the help! Beer 4U2
 
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Old 07-16-10, 10:01 AM
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Not all toilets are 12 inch rough in. Are you sure the rough in for the model you installed isn't 10"?
 
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Old 07-16-10, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Not all toilets are 12 inch rough in. Are you sure the rough in for the model you installed isn't 10"?
Yep, I've double and triple-checked the box and instructions that came with it, and it definitely states it is for a 12-in. rough-in. Now, whether the incorrect toilet came in the box...I don't know how I would go about verifying that or even proving that to be the case if I tried taking it back to the big box store.

Thanks for the idea though - it's always good to ask the obvious question for the "just-in-case."
 
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Old 07-16-10, 10:52 AM
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Another obvious question. Did you measure the rough in from the edge of the wall to the edge of the waste pipe or from the edge of the wall to the center of the waste pipe?

Older homes often have 14" wall to center of pipe. That would account for the extra gap at the back of the tank.

Just askin'
 
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Old 07-16-10, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
Another obvious question. Did you measure the rough in from the edge of the wall to the edge of the waste pipe or from the edge of the wall to the center of the waste pipe?

Older homes often have 14" wall to center of pipe. That would account for the extra gap at the back of the tank.

Just askin'
Another great question! My rough-in measurement was from the finished drywall (not the baseboard - just the wall) to the center of the pipe. Once the toilet was in place (sadly, I didn't think to dry-fit and am kicking myself now), I could only show the measurement between the wall and the mounting bolts in the photos I posted.

This is in a new construction 2nd level addition - although I've been doing all of the work as opposed to a contractor, so if there is an error, I can only blame myself .

Again, thanks for the feedback, it's at least one more item I can check-off my list of troubleshooting ideas.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 12:26 PM
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I'm no expert, but you already admit to being off 3/4". I went and measured my one toilet and the bolts are exactly 12" from the wall. That left about 1 1/2" of space between the toilet and the wall. A difference of 1/2" between manufacturers doesn't sound too crazy to me. A 2" gap doesn't seem outrageous either. That extra 3/4" that you have because of your error can make all the difference in appearance. You should try calling them to see if they can tell you what they try to design their toilets to be.

Keep in mind, they need to design a gap that will allow the lid to come off, allow for small inaccuracies in installation, and any type of woodwork/tile that may be added to that wall.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 12:37 PM
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You are correct, I'm 3/4" off, but I wouldn't expect that to equate to a 2.75" gap. That just seems way too much. While I understand that manufacturers need to build in a small tolerance for different wall material, 2" again seems like a bit more than would be acceptable. Maybe not - just that I've never seen other toilets sit near this far out.

I do plan to call and see what the mfg. has to say, but I really don't expect much, as it's not like they can see what I am trying to describe. As far as what they design their toilet specs. to, I would assume it's the same as what their install guide suggests as far as dimensions and such.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 01:04 PM
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If you got that toilet from a big box there is a good chance that you have one that is different then what the box says
 
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Old 07-16-10, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by shacko View Post
If you got that toilet from a big box there is a good chance that you have one that is different then what the box says
Yeah, unfortunately it did come from the big orange store. I'll pop the top off the tank this evening and see if I can find any model numbers or something to match up with what supposedly was in the box. Not sure if this will work, but worth a try I figure.

Thanks for the suggestion that there is at least a chance the item and the box don't match (not that I'm saying that's the case here, but something I'd like to try and verify at least).
 
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Old 07-16-10, 01:21 PM
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One more obvious question. Was this a "single box" toilet or was the tank in a seperate box? Maybe the tank doesn't go with the base.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 02:00 PM
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If he has a 10" toilet, then that would mean it would touch the wall if installed on a 10" rough in flange.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
One more obvious question. Was this a "single box" toilet or was the tank in a seperate box? Maybe the tank doesn't go with the base.
Yep single box. One of those "everything included" sort of deals. Nothing in the box looked out of place or unusual upon opening it. The only thing they forgot was the shim to go between the tank and the wall
 
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Old 07-16-10, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by drooplug View Post
If he has a 10" toilet, then that would mean it would touch the wall if installed on a 10" rough in flange.
But he has a 12" rough in. That is why the original question was asked. A 10" on a 12" rough in would explain the gap.
 
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Old 07-16-10, 03:25 PM
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Is this your toilet? http://www.americanstandard-us.com/s...s.aspx?d=1&t=3 ? According to the spec sheet it is a 12" R/I. Check the measurements in the spec sheet. That should tell you if something is out of wack. Maybe a wrong toilet. Spec diagram seems to show minimal distance to wall. http://www.americanstandard-us.com/a...Sheet_1572.pdf

 
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Old 07-17-10, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Is this your toilet? Toilet - American Standard Toilets ? According to the spec sheet it is a 12" R/I. Check the measurements in the spec sheet. That should tell you if something is out of wack. Maybe a wrong toilet. Spec diagram seems to show minimal distance to wall. http://www.americanstandard-us.com/a...Sheet_1572.pdf
Thanks Ray. The diagram you posted is pretty close, but I did some looking, and this is the model I supposedly have: http://www.americanstandard-us.com/a...Sheet_1504.pdf

I plan to take some measurements today and see if I can determine whether it appears as though the toilet is correct or not.

Thanks again to you and the others for offering up some ideas and things for me to check-out.
 
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Old 07-17-10, 01:45 PM
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Are you sure you didn't measure your flange off a baseboard? those measurments from your link are pretty close if you add a baseboard in, just asking.
 
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Old 07-19-10, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shacko View Post
Are you sure you didn't measure your flange off a baseboard? those measurments from your link are pretty close if you add a baseboard in, just asking.
Yep - I'm sure Baseboards weren't installed when the rough-in took place, and the photos I took were from the drywall to the mounting bolts. I plan to give AM Standard a call today just to see if they have any ideas. Guess I could always build an over-the-tank shelf or something to hide the gap. Not quite what I had wanted, but it would work.
 
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Old 08-10-10, 02:01 PM
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I know it's been awhile and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but figured I'd throw up an update for anyone that cares.

I've been in contact with AM. Standard customer service multiple times working through my dilemma. What I have been told is that the model I have has a tolerance of 1.25" between the wall and tank. They've also indicated this toilet model is only available in a 12-inch rough-in with a single model tank that bolts on (pretty much telling me that the parts I have are apparently correct). All that aside, they claim my installation is perfectly normal on this model and there is absolutely nothing they can/will do. So, basically it looks like I need to find the woodworker's forum and figure out how to build an attractive shelf/surround to cover this ugly blemish

I certainly hope other folks have had better success with AM. Standard's cust. service, because for me, it's been a very frustrating and fruitless experience. Never again!
 
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Old 08-10-10, 04:20 PM
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I don't mind Mondays at all.

I read this thread and took some measurements. I have two Kohler Cimmaron toilets that I installed. They are 11 3/4" and 12" from the wall. The gap in the back of the tank is 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" at the top. Had I plumbed them an additional 3/4" away from the wall I would have the same standoff that you are describing.

With the lid on the tank the gap is pretty small.

Would an offset flange help?
 
 

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