Bath / Shower remodel

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  #1  
Old 04-20-11, 10:09 PM
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Bath / Shower remodel

hello,

I am going to be gutting a 23 year old bath and remodeling it in my condo. I am planning on gutting the down to the drywall in main area and studs in the shower area. I am aware of water damage in the shower and flooring. I am also replacing the subfloor in areas since it water damanged and spongy near the shower stall. I have the following questions / concerns.


Q1: I was forced to replace the toilet today due to it leaking at the base (wax seal failed) and problem with the toilet tank guts. The distance from wall to the bolts/ flange is 12". I replaced it with the American Standard 2585. It was a fairl easy process but the tank of the toilet is about 2" off the wall and the old toilet take was tight to the wall? The base of the toilet is about 1/2 from the wall. Is this a newer style? or did I buy the wrong toilet?

Q2: The shower area is 48" x 32". The bottom is a pan and the walls are tiled. I would like to get rid of the tile and put in stall system. I am having no luck finding anything but the pan in that size. Am I out of luck and will I be putting tile back in? If I must put tile back in what do you suggest for wet area backing? (is purpble board the new standard)? Is there a rubber barrier I am supposed to put over that for a complete water proof area.

Q3: regarding the flooring. The current floor is laminate layed right over the subfloor. What are my options to get tile in. Keep in mind I will need to replace part of the sub floor due to water damage. The sub floor and lamanite is nearly flush with the carpeted floor in the hall. If I put tile down I must put cement board down over the sub floor correct? In doing so won't I make it too tall by the time the tile is installed?

I am green in home remodeling but am confident in my abiltiy to teach myself new things if I can find good books and advice.



Thank for all the info
 
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Old 04-20-11, 11:20 PM
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Is this a newer style? or did I buy the wrong toilet?
Make sure the box says its a 12" rough toilet. Then its correct. The manufacturers make the bases bigger then the older toilers. Why? Probably the design of better trapways.

The tank sound normal. It should be about one inch. They leave room for flanges that are slightly off. Plus on remodels walls get thicker sometimes and a 12" flange becomes a 11" flange. See what I am saying?

Am I out of luck and will I be putting tile back in?
48x32 is a common size. You put the base in and get three panaled walls. You can find anywhere. Go to a local home store. Here is a example.

Mustee, E. L. & Sons, Inc. Durabase 32 in. x 48 in. Single Threshold Shower Floor in White - 3248M at The Home Depot

If your talking one piece there are options.

If I put tile down I must put cement board down over the sub floor correct? In doing so won't I make it too tall by the time the tile is installed?
They have transitions that compensate for height differences between rooms.


Others will be here to answer your questions, and you will get some good tips.

Mike NJ
 
  #3  
Old 04-21-11, 05:00 AM
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Unless you can be without this bathroom for several weeks, hire someone to do it for you. A pro should be able to demo this room and have the new sub flooring down, shower pan put back in, walls in enclosher up and new sheetrock hung in a day.
Sheetrock taped and mudded the next day. It's going to take 4 days to finish the sheetrock and prime and paint the walls, then the tile can go in.
A bathroom complete gutting and rebuilding for a DIY is not a good first time project, and if done wrong will just fail and have to be done all over again.

When you say Laminet do you real mean linolium flooring? Because laminite flooring never should have been used in a bathroom.
Not sure why you would have replaced a whole toilet when about $15.00 worth of parts would have fixed the old one.
A standard toilet flange placement is from the center of the flange to the finished wall is 12". If your new toilet with the tank cover on it is still 1" away from the wall then somethings off.
With it that far away when someone leans back it could snap off the tank bolts or break the tank.
A nail on shower enclosher does not use any backer. It just gets nailed to the studs with galvinized roofing nails.
If you expect to lay tile on the floor then there needs to be 3/4 T&G Advantec subflooring with constrution adhesive on top of the floor joist, a layer of at least 3/8" A/C underlament plywood over that laid so the seams below do not line up, with underlaminet nails holding it down every 4" on the edges and every 6" to 8" in the field. Once the shower pans sat there's needs to be a layer of 1/4 cement tile board held down with tile board screws, and seams taped with thin set and fiber tile board tape.
Just to do this job your going to need, toe Kick saw, impact hammer drill, table saw, hammer, jig saw or better yet a 4-1/4" hole saw, a big enough electric drill to run the hole saw, hole saws to make the holes for all the holes for supply lines and for mounting the shower control valve, tile saw, grout float, ciruler saw, drywall square, utilty knife, bason wrench, pry bars ECT.
The size encloure you have is not odd ball your just looking in the wrong store for it.
Most box stores will only stock 36X 36, and 48 X 48 because that's what sells. It may have to be order but that means you may be without a shower for 2 weeks. So order it, when it comes in do the demo.
DO NOT USE A STICK ON ENCLOSHER, ONLY USE A NAIL ON !! The stick on ones are 3 times thinner.
 
  #4  
Old 04-21-11, 08:41 PM
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@Mike NJ doublechecked the toile and it is a 12" toilet. Just looks ood as the 20+ year old crapper was tight to the wall. I am glad I replaced it. The new one never clogs. The old need a plunger every other flush.

I did find the base I was just wondering about the all or a once piece shower stall.

@Joe yes I did mean linoleum, sorry I misspoke. I can live without the bath as it is the guest bath and I am allowing myself 2-4 weeks to complete it. I decided to replace the crapper because even after snaking it plugged up every other flush and since I was pulling it up anyways I decided to change it. The new one is freaking awesome and flushed a million times better.

Still not sure what the deal with the tank is. I double checked the toilet/box and measurements. The toilet is for a 12" and the flange center is 12" from the wall.


I'm trying to pull this off myself after getting the quote of 4K for a freaking stall with me doing the demo is freaking outrageous. I am hoping to do the hole bath for 5-6K. Am I being unrealistic here?
 
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Old 04-22-11, 05:35 AM
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Mike and 727, I found the American Standard 4 to fit really tight to the wall trim, but the tank was loose. I thought it really odd, too. And I believe that is normal, now with the newer standards of flushing. For those who look and comment, there's always the outhouse down at my shop they can use, or keep quiet. I'm happy with the flushing
As far as your floor tile, yes, you may have a transition, but you gotta have a cbu backer under the tile or it will fail. Now with it being a smaller room, you may be better off using Ditra underlayment (orange waffle stuff), which will have a lower profile once the tile is installed.
Good that you have allocated time for this. It is a great project with satisfaction built in. Let us know as you go if you get stumped or have other questions. If need be, post some pictures of problem areas, and you will get a faster answer. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html
 
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Old 04-22-11, 06:22 PM
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chandler,

Thanks, I thought I was going crazy and the wife complaining about the gap. Thanks for letting me know the gap is normal. I will post pictures when I get started and if I get stuck. So far I pricing everything out and most likely will be starting it in May hafter my I get done flying my next rotatoin.

With regards to the shower stall. I've found the base from a link by lawrosa (Mike NJ), I however am still having trouble tracking down walls in that size, any suggestions? I would prefer not to retile the shower if I can put a fiberglass system in instead. If I do have to retile there is also tile on the ceiling above the stall. Anyone have any tips on tiling over your head?

Thanks
 
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Old 04-22-11, 07:30 PM
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I cant remember if my upstairs was the aquaglass. I think it was because of the walls. You can find the walls with the bases at the home store. ( Its likely in this size you need to order everything. You need to look in the books they have there.


Base

E. L. Mustee & Sons - DURAWALL® Shower Floors Rectangular, Single Threshold

Surround.

E. L. Mustee & Sons - Model 748-32 DURAWALL® Fiberglass Shower Walls for Rectangular Showers, 32" X 48"

Although Mustee has been around as long as I can remember, I do not really like the style.

I believe I have aquaglass or sterling. I will check the sites for sizes.

You may be limited to choices.

I have a question. How is your current shower set up?

If you are gutting the bath, and the shower has a floating wall, you should add some wall to make it 34". You will have a better selection.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-22-11, 08:03 PM
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Heres one.


This is just the base. Pricey but may be high quality. It says walls available.

MAAX: Acrylic Shower Base 48" x 32" x 5" Rectangular (single threshold, center d

Bathroom Products


This one.

32 x 48 Rectangular Shower Tray

And take the floating wall down if you have one.

32 x 48 Rectangular Shower Enclosure




Mike NJ
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 04-22-11 at 08:26 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-22-11, 08:50 PM
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The current shower has no room to grow due to the layout, which the wife doesn't want the layout modified, so I am stuck with the 48 x 32 foot print. The current shower is tiled on the sides and ceiling and 48 wall is load bearing.

I will try to post a pic later
 
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Old 04-22-11, 09:11 PM
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The current shower is tiled on the sides and ceiling and 48 wall is load bearing.
Of course load bearing wall stays. But the left wall or right wall dictate the 32". All you need is two 2x4's on left or right walls to make 34" Once at 34 you have more of a selection.


These are nice. Solid or aggregate color.

Base

Swanstone Products: SS-3248 Single Threshold Shower Floors 32" x 48" - Solid Color

Wall.

Swanstone Products: SK-324872 Solid Surface Shower Wall Kits 32" x 48" x 72" - Solid Color

Heres 48x34. This is what I have.

Sterling Plumbing: Ensemble™ Shower Receptor: Shower Bases: Baths & Showers


6 walls to chose from.

Sterling Plumbing: Shower Stalls: Baths & Showers: Product Results

Good luck.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-23-11, 08:03 AM
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Here are some pics of the shower / bath that has to go. You may click on the pic to make them bigger

Below is the gap in the toilet I am concerned with...12" toilet on a 12" flange center...just doesn't seem right...



Looking in from the hallway. Their is a closet to the left behind the door and the shower just past that on the left.



Top half of shower it is about 85" from pan to ceiling. If I go with a stall kit (which is what I want) what do I do above the top of the shower kit. Most I am seeing stop around 75"



Bottom half of shower. Sorry, couldn't get far enough back to take a full pic. The pan is crack in the right corner behind the curtain.



as you can I see I am pretty much locked to the 48 x 32 dimensions.




.

 
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Old 04-23-11, 09:32 AM
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If it were me I would add the two 2x4's to the left to make it 34". Your not extending the whole wall thats behind the dorr, but just a bump out on the left side of the shower.

Then you have so much more to chose from and cost will be way lower. The 48x32's are expensive.

Also where are you measuring from? Are you sure its 32".

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-23-11, 09:35 AM
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You will be better satisfied with tiling the walls and ceiling than you ever will with a wall insert. IMO, they are flimsy and just don't appeal to the eye. Tile, on the other hand will be handsome to look at, and properly installed, will last a long time.
 
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Old 04-23-11, 10:31 AM
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You will be better satisfied with tiling the walls and ceiling than you ever will with a wall insert.
I dont know Chandler, I have the sterling surround and its pretty thick and secure. I would of done the same for the downstairs but I have the window thats in the shower. ( great engineering there) I was forced to put tile because of that.

I dislike tile. Grout is not water proof, and all problems relate to tile sooner or later. With the new interlock surround now, they seal great, and not like to old stick on walls of yester year.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-23-11, 12:09 PM
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Mike the measuremen 48x32 is stamped into the shower pan in one corner.

I'm still failing to see how adding 2x4's wil
Help. It would end up making the entry into the bath too narrow and not look right IMO.
 
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Old 04-23-11, 12:22 PM
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Hmm. Its hard to explain. All will be the same. I will find a pic to show you what I mean. The back wall (window)is good. You will get the two inches there. The left wall where the diverter is need a two inch extension. Not the whole wall from the shower to the door.

I will find a pic and a carpenter may help out here.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-23-11, 05:58 PM
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Mike,

I think I might get what you are saying...In looking at the shower I have about 2" (where the bullnose tile is). If come out it should be flush with the wall. See pic



 
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Old 04-23-11, 07:34 PM
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Yes thats what I am talking about.

And if you need additonal inches you can add a 2x6 to that section between the closet door and the shower. Lay the 2x6 on the flat to get a additional 1 1/2 ".(It looks 6" wide) Plus sheet rock shoule get you 2".

Now you can go with the nice Sterling unit instead of that crummy mustee base and expensive walls. Some aquagalss is nice too.

Just a note. Its actually 35 1/4" you will need. If you measure from the back wall to the area you are showing in your first pic with the ruler, what do you get? Remember to subtract about 1" because the back wall has tile and sheet rock.

http://www.sterlingplumbing.com/onli.../1156429_2.pdf

Mike NJ
 
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Old 08-19-11, 03:31 PM
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Well I finally have the time off from flying and the Demo has begun. The shower was built like crap and the Demo portion of the stall took just over an hour and that include 5 trips out the dumpster. The ceiling basically fell down with one good tug and the walls came down in about 3 sections each. It appears the people that built this thing put it up with liquid nails or its equivalent in 1989 with only a nail here and there. I'll post pictures later tonight. Not sure if I am going with a prefab stall or tile yet. Need to do some measuring yet as it is going to be close in getting the 36" required for the stall kit.
 
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Old 08-20-11, 07:44 AM
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  #21  
Old 08-20-11, 09:30 AM
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727drvr - If it were me I would go with tile. A good looking tile job lasts forever, is DIY and design friendly, reasonably inexpensive and it will add value to your home. After a few years the fiberglass/acrylic surrounds start to show their age and their parentage. For me they are low end and a bit cheesy.
 
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Old 08-21-11, 07:41 PM
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Well after shopping around several stores we have decided to go with an all tile shower including the floor. We just didn't like any of the prefab stuff. Now I get the fun of building a custom shower pan...Woo hoo!
 
  #23  
Old 08-22-11, 07:35 PM
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Fixed the subfloor squeeks and whole in it. Installed the new drain and got the pre pan poured and pitched.

 
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Old 08-27-11, 05:55 PM
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All has been going well so far and only few mistakes with the hardiback thus far.

1. On the ceiling of the shower I plan on painting it. What do you recommend I cover the screw with?

2. The hardbacker chipped in one corner when I was putting it on. The defect is only about 2x3". Can I just mud this over with the mud compound? o

3. Now onto the shower valve. I ok and confortable with sweating copper pipes. The old shower is plumbed with 1/4" copper and the old valve is soldered in place. The new shower faucet is made by Pegaus and it has threaded connections that are much larger. I haven't measured yet but guess they are 1/2". Do I need to rip out all the plumbing to T's down stairs and bring larger lines up? I have an unfinished basement so that wouldn't be to hard to do and I am in Ranch so it is a short run. Or do I go with PEX?

Thanks again for helping this noob diyer out..
 
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Old 08-28-11, 02:20 PM
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Disregard Q3...I figured it out.
 
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Old 08-29-11, 11:32 AM
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bump........................
 
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Old 08-29-11, 11:39 AM
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You figured #3 out?

1/4 " pipe in a home? Strange......

#1. Spackle?

#2. Cut a piece the size of the chip and fill the chip hole. If no place to screw it, you need to slip a piece of wood in there and screw the wood to the inside of the backer board. Then screw your piece to that wood.
( Hard to explain but a carpenter will be on I am sure and explain it better)


Mike NJ
 
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Old 08-31-11, 08:12 PM
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#3 Yeah it was 1/2" my eye balls were wrong....LOL...

#1 just plane ole dry wall spackle?

#2 Got it, I have done that before with drywall repairs. I was hoping I could just mud over it as I was tiling any ways ...

Thanks Mike

Originally Posted by lawrosa View Post
You figured #3 out?

1/4 " pipe in a home? Strange......

#1. Spackle?

#2. Cut a piece the size of the chip and fill the chip hole. If no place to screw it, you need to slip a piece of wood in there and screw the wood to the inside of the backer board. Then screw your piece to that wood.
( Hard to explain but a carpenter will be on I am sure and explain it better)


Mike NJ
 
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Old 09-01-11, 05:40 AM
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Screws? As in drywall screws in the ceiling? Spackle. Screws as in hardibacker screws, use thinset while you are taping your joints with concrete mesh tape and thinset. Small chip out on the hardi won't end the world. If the surrounding area is stable, just thinset it in place, mesh tape and keep rolling.
Glad you got your bifocals fixed . 1/4" supply is basically unheard of in a residence.
 
  #30  
Old 09-03-11, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
Screws? As in drywall screws in the ceiling? Spackle. Screws as in hardibacker screws, use thinset while you are taping your joints with concrete mesh tape and thinset. Small chip out on the hardi won't end the world. If the surrounding area is stable, just thinset it in place, mesh tape and keep rolling.
Glad you got your bifocals fixed . 1/4" supply is basically unheard of in a residence.
bifocals--lmao... although a 1/4 " in this place wouldn't surpriseme. I have found some wierd stuff already. Greenboard was in the shower and only held up by liquid nails... Double tapped circuits in the electrical box, sump pump wired directly to the back the Electical meter. Wrong shutoff valves used or no shutoffs at all. Been learning a lot as I go and I know what to look for now when I go house shopping again. Is there a site that rates home inspectors? I don't think I got my $400 bucks worth out of the last guy...

I put hardibacker on the ceiling above the shower stall and used hardiback screws. So you are saying just use the thinset and I can make it smooth enough to paint over? Or am I better off tiling the ceiling over the shower?
 
  #31  
Old 09-16-11, 10:27 AM
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The project is coming a long and I am back home for a couple of week so will finish tapping and mudding the joints and hopefull can start tiling.

Two questions,

What should I do on the wall that have cement board near dry wall? Do I use drywall compound or motor on that joint?

Since I intend on painting the ceiling is there a motor that is sandable?

Thanks
 
  #32  
Old 09-17-11, 10:23 AM
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727 - Tape and mud the joint where the tile and drywall meet using thinset and CBU tape. I position that joint to where the tile will overlap onto the drywall.

I've never tiled or put CBU on the shower ceiling. Drywall and paint have always been good enough for me. I do think that tile on hte ceiling is a nice touch.

We've had home inspector discussions on this board and there are a couple of inspectors that are members. I think the reviews are mixed with some support and some negatives. A lot seems to depend on where you live. Some areas require home inspectors to be licensed and credentialled where other areas have zero control.
 
  #33  
Old 01-09-12, 03:58 PM
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shower is finally done. Ok I gave up after all the prep work and called in a tile guy to lay the tile. here are the pics






 
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