Closet flange oriented wrong - help!

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Old 04-21-11, 12:21 PM
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Closet flange oriented wrong - help!

I'm ready to install the flange (and of course, the toilet) on my newly-tiled bathroom floor, but there's a slight issue - I notched the tile to allow to flange to be fastened to the plywood sub-floor, but when I did I had the largest part of the johnny-bolt slots at 9 and 3 o'clock, so there's nothing to keep the bolts in place.

I don't want to drill more holes in my tile, so I was thinking of drilling a few new holes in the metal flange.

Question: If I do drill new holes, and the screws I use (flat heads deck screws) are slightly proud of the flange, will this cause any problem, or does the wax ring leave enough room so that I'll be OK?

I guess the other way of asking this is, does the toilet actually come in contact with the top of the flange, and if not, how much space do you typically see between the two?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 12:36 PM
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I did I had the largest part of the johnny-bolt slots at 9 and 3 o'clock, so there's nothing to keep the bolts in place
They just set loosely in the slots. The better toilet bolts come with a plastic disk or speed nut that holds them up right. You can also use a bit of wax or plumbers putty to hold the bolt upright..

Definition: Speed nut is a flat thin piece of metal with a slotted hole. Usually now though it is a plastic disk that works the same way. They are very thin and just push down.


Speednut
 

Last edited by ray2047; 04-21-11 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 04-21-11, 12:53 PM
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Got it - so I need to find a speed nut that will fit into the collar of the flange to keep it from coming out, correct?
 
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Old 04-21-11, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by greg98 View Post
Got it - so I need to find a speed nut that will fit into the collar of the flange to keep it from coming out, correct?
No. Aparentlly I don't understand your question. The disc or speed nut goes on top to keep it upright. The head of the bolt under the flange keeps it in place. Are you saying there is no space to turn thr head in the slot?
 
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Old 04-21-11, 02:05 PM
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I guess a picture would help.



As you can see, when I line up the flange so that the screw holes (for the screws that secure it to the sub-floor) are lined up with the holes in my tile, the largest part of the johnny bolt slots (rather than the thin slots) are at 9 and 3 o'clock. So there's nothing to hold the heads of the bolts in place when I fasten the toilet. Make sense?

I'm thinking of drilling new screw holes. I obviously can't countersink the holes in the thin metal collar, so the screws will stick up slightly. Just trying to find out of this would interfere with the connection between the wax ring and toilet.

EDIT: Just doing some poking around on the web and it looks like a spanner flange would be a good fix for this. I could just slip it under the flange collar, put my bolt through and install the closet flange. Once that was done I could orient the bolts correctly. Does that sound like it would work?
 
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Old 04-21-11, 02:42 PM
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That metal flange spins. Spin it to the proper location.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-21-11, 02:52 PM
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Thanks Mike, but the problem isn't that I can't move the flange - it hasn't even been installed yet. The problem is that I've drilled holes in my tile so that I can fasten the flange to the subfloor, and when those holes are lined up the largest part of the slots are at 3 and 9 o'clock.

I don't want to drill any more holes in my tile so I'm looking for a work-around. Looks like a spanner flange might be the answer.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 03:03 PM
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Im a plumber. I have seen spanner flanges and never used them. My work ethic is do it right.

If you want to go ahead.

If it was me I would drill new holes.

What are you putting in the holes? Mollys? Or galv wood screws?

Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-21-11, 03:15 PM
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Drill the holes. It won't hurt, and the toilet will cover everything. I thought you had already glued it in place, too. Simple fix to do it right.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 03:17 PM
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So just drill new holes in the tile. A masonry or concrete bit and a 3/8" or larger corded drill should do it. Don't use a hammer drill in hammer mode. You might crack the tile.

Just for next time I would probably installed the flange before the tile. You could always use a spacer and longer bolts if needed.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 03:17 PM
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I appreciate your help, Mike. Are you talking about drilling new holes in the flange?

I'm planning on using coated deck screws, BTW.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 03:32 PM
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I usually wouldn't hesitate to do that, but two things:

1) This tile is really hard, brittle porcelain.
2) The holes (they're really notches, so pretty wide) that are in the tile already are very close to where I'd have to drill the new holes, so that's makes the possibility of a mishap even more likely.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 04:29 PM
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My advice is you should not be using the molly type anchors anyway. You should be screwing down the flange to the sub floor with a gavinized wood screw.

Whatever you have there, if your looking for advice, then mine is to install the flange without the spanner flange.

There is nothing wrong with the spanner flange I suppose. I just would not use it on a new install where the flange is not even glued yet.

Those spanner flanges are for flanges that are in place and the plumber takes a easyway out so he does not need to repair the flange properly.

How about a pic without the flange off the floor. I am curious to what the notches look like.

Also that flange is not glued yet but the metal part should rest on the tile when you install it. Otherwise you may have issues. It looks like they did not cut enough from the tile for the flange to sit flush.



Mike NJ
 
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Old 04-21-11, 04:42 PM
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Hey Mike,

Here's the only pic I have of the notched floor - the first pic in this post is just the flange sitting in place on the CBU, tile hadn't been laid yet. It's not easy to see, but there's a square notch for each of the six screws. I installed the tile myself, and the flange will rest on the tile, not the sub-floor. Floor is flat and level in all directions.

 
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Old 04-21-11, 04:59 PM
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Cut the notches the rest of the way out and reinstall them for flange support in a new position to where the holes will align. If, after you cut the notches away, the flange will sit flat on the cbu, then let it. You can always use a thicker wax ring, or silicone an extender ring on top of it.
Just curious, you aren't a machinist by trade, are you. That's some great notching, that a tiler would not have done. Full tiles, or no tiles and holes drilled into the tile, or into the cbu directly with an extension ring.
 
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Old 04-21-11, 05:07 PM
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Thanks Chandler, but I'm trying my damnedest to keep from having to cut the tile any more. As I said, it's hard and brittle, and now that I'm so close to the finish line with this remodel, I really don't want to take the chance that I might have to take up any tile and re-install - especially since two of the tiles are installed under my wainscot.

Just curious - if my only problem is that I need some "meat" for the johnny bolt to grab onto, why wouldn't the spanner flange work? I realize it's not ideal, but what's the drawback?

Oh, and I was a machinist back in the day - thanks for the compliment!
 
 

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