Water intake valve to toilet replacement? And leak around flush assembly.

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Old 07-27-13, 09:25 AM
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Water intake valve to toilet replacement? And leak around flush assembly.

Howdy folks-

I just discovered this forum, which is great for a hopeless case like myself!

Up until very recently I was having a small 'hiss' from my toilet. I couldn't identify an exterior leak. Recently I noticed a small amount of water on the floor and the area external to the tank where the water supply line and flush assembly meet was wet. I tried to hand tighten the plastic flange. It then leaked strongly where the flush assembly and tank meet.

On top of this leak, I have a very ugly water supply valve. It comes up from the floor. From reading, I see I may have either a straight forward fix where I replace the compression nut, or a scary fix where I have to sweat the nut.

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So!..
1) Should I just take out the flush assembly, gather any and all washers, and take them to the hardware store to find replacements? (In order to fix the top leak.)

2) Should I attempt to replace this valve and the corroded cap at the base? Or is this the type that a regular joe can fix?

I greatly appreciate any and all help.

Will S.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 09:35 AM
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Replace that valve with new compression type. new escuteon.. Also cut off the old ferrule and replace... ( New nut and ferrule) Or have a new sweat valve installed if you cant solder...

Then replace the whole fill valve with a fluid master 400a.

Then a new braided flex line...

You should be good to go...

But lastly if the toilet is old you may want to replace if it does not perform well....
 
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Old 07-27-13, 09:44 AM
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Thank you very much. So this appears to be a compression type currently on there? (which I could either cut off or purchase the compression nut removal tool to remove?) Is cutting particularly dangerous (in terms of harming pipe) for the lay person?
 
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Old 07-27-13, 10:22 AM
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To remove the nut you would use an adjustable wrench....... actually two of them. One to hold the valve and one to remove the nut. Once you loosened the lower nut and slid it down.... you'd see the ferrule that you'd need to cut. Unfortunately you need to cut the ferrule so that you can replace the lower nut.

Cutting the ferrule needs to be done carefully so that the copper pipe isn't damaged.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 11:21 AM
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Thanks much.

I only know my water shut off valve is located "above my water heater". There are three valves there. Is there any way to know which of the three is the shut off?

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Old 07-27-13, 11:30 AM
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If you draw hot water from a tap for a few seconds......the hot water out line from the water heater will be hot. It won't be that valve.

My guess is you can turn off both blue valves shown in your pictures. I don't see a third one.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 11:31 AM
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Thanks, I will try that. The third is at that yellow tag; it's a small silver twist valve a couple of inches above the heater. Is this gas perhaps?
 
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Old 07-27-13, 12:53 PM
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That is a T and P relief valve on top of the tank where the yellow tag is fastened. That valve will open automatically if the pressure or temperature gets too hot inside the tank.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 01:29 PM
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Well I gathered everything I needed and went to work: Still a failure!!!

I cut off the old compression nut with a dremel and managed to barely involve the pipe. I wiped off the pipe and put on a new compression nut with the ferrule. I used teflon tape on the screws. I put on a new braided hose. I installed the Fluid Master 400. Now I'm getting a small leak right underneath the compression nut; it is making the toilet "refill" for just a second or two every 15 seconds or so. It is also spraying a tiny amount of water onto the floor.

I have re-tightened the compression washer as hard as I can and the leaking won't stop. What do I need to do?

I'm getting pretty frustrated and am near calling someone.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 01:36 PM
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Turn the water back off. Back off the compression nut. Try to get a wrap or two of teflon tape around ferrule and then put nut back on.

A water leak before the toilet will not cause the toilet to refill. You may have a small flapper leak.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 02:24 PM
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Thanks for the help.

I put a ton of extra teflon tape on there and is still dribbling. What else could be wrong? Did I overtighten the ferrule and now it's off? Or is the pipe itself off in some way? Luck of the draw in getting a bad nut??

Grr.

I will pick up a new flapper as well, I suppose. Do I need just a flapper you think or that whole seal at the bottom of the tank?
 
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Old 07-27-13, 02:38 PM
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no teflon tape... remove it all...

Teflon paste only... Tape with restrict it from being tightened properly...

Paste on threads and ferrule...
 
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Old 07-27-13, 02:49 PM
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Third trip to hardware store it is then. I pulled all the teflon and re-tightened to see what it would do without any teflon, and it leaked even without the water being turned on! Is that normal? Seems like it should at least be able to handle zero pressure.
 
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Old 07-27-13, 03:09 PM
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where is the ferrule on the pipe? Cant be at the very end... need some pipe showing...

Additionally I have seen many over tighten and crack the nut..
 
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Old 07-27-13, 03:33 PM
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There's a good quarter inch or more of pipe past the ferrule. But I bought a whole new valve assembly and cut off the old ferrule.

I can feel a strong indentation around the pipe where one of the past ferrules was tightened down. I assume this could easily be the reason for the leak. So now my only choice is to cut the last 1" of pipe off, no?

Is a pipe cutting tool a must for this I assume?
 
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Old 07-27-13, 04:10 PM
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You dont want to cut too much pipe... You may get too close to the floor... Dry fit the new valve on and see how far it slips on the pipe... You should get more then 1/4 inch....
 
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Old 07-27-13, 04:30 PM
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It won't come down any further. I would have to cut about 7/8" of the exposed 2", which seems risky. I may have to call in a plumber now, especially considering I have had no running water since noon. Anyone have good alternative?
 
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Old 07-27-13, 04:39 PM
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take a pic or the pipe end... Is it all cleaned up??? You saying its egged??? Crawn or basement??? possible you can get more pipe up through the floor...
 
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Old 07-28-13, 10:11 AM
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A kindly and very knowledgeable friend came and looked at it, since I only had about 2" or pipe to work with. After removing the ferrule, we realized why my first attempt failed. The pipe was crushed along the circumference and had some gouges on the back side. He was able to cleanly cut off right below this area and a new compression nut(or rather conglomerate of two nuts, since the second nut didn't fit) worked great without any Teflon. So no leaks exterior to the tank.

I replaced the flapper and used a plastic replacement cover that came with it, and still a leak. I thought it was a hairline crack in the overflow tube, but after a couple of hours with the water shut off, the tanks had almost completely drained. So that leaves a worse crack at the base of the tube, to my mind. I'm going to go back to the store(trip five!) To buy a new tube assembly. I'll have replaced every single part, including the handle, at this point (and twice in some instances).

This is why I don't attempt home repair.
 
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Old 07-28-13, 02:27 PM
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I installed a new fluid master flapper and overflow assembly, and new bolts and gaskets. Still had some leaking around the screws so had to tweak the bolt tightness, which made me nervous.

When using the fluid master kit, is it normal for the tank to wobble a bit? There's nothing preventing it from tilting forward and backward a bit. I can't help but think its a good way to get leaks. I'm going to go buy some rubber washers to stack on either side of the bolts later this week.
 
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Old 07-28-13, 02:33 PM
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Don't feel to bad. I'm not a plumber and I've run into the same exact problems you did.

I don't know toilets well by brand but I know on an older one I had here I had to purchase some plastic shims to keep the tank solid. They come in a pack of 4 and they're wedge shaped. They have ridges in them so that they don't slide out. I believe they're made for under the toilet where it sits on the floor but in my case they worked great on the tank.
 
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