toilet doesn't flush clean

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  #1  
Old 08-17-13, 04:29 PM
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toilet doesn't flush clean

One of the toilet at my home doesn't flush clean occasionally, when it happens, the swirl of the water is not fast enough to flush water down to the pipe. sometimes the water is clean but the paper is still there(see one of the picture).

After google searching around and I came to this post: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/toilets-sinks-showers-tubs-garbage-disposals/159556-cleaning-toilet-flush-holes.html

I can't reply to that post anymore so I started a new one.

I thought the clog in the rim hole could be the issue of this toilet. when I tried to check rim hole while flush the toilet, I found that there is NO water come from the any of the roles at all... how is that possible? the water is running into the overflow tube, but don't see any water come out of the rim hole. I don't think ALL roles are clogged completely, otherwise water can't continue running into overflow rube, right? where does the water from overflow tube go?

Don't know the model/maker of the toilet, a picture attached how it looks like.

anyone can give some suggestion on what could be wrong and how to fix it?

thank you!
 
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  #2  
Old 08-17-13, 05:24 PM
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I found that there is NO water come from the any of the roles at all... how is that possible?
The holes get clogged with calcium deposits... You can try clearing them with a coat hanget... You go in at the same angle the hole are angled...

That may help some...

That looks like a old kohler rialto toilet from the 80's...

IMO it would be best to replace the toilet... Even when new those toulets were poorly desighned and never flushed well...

Water will come up/out the bottom hole down in the bowl if all the holes are clogged solid...
 
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Old 08-18-13, 11:07 AM
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tried to clean the holes with hanger, the wire can go into the holes for about one inch, seems not clogged completely, however still no single drop of water coming out of the rim roles.

I have a similar model that works well, there is no water from the rim hole either. (The other model with high tank does have water from the rim holes).

what else could be wrong?

If replace, could you recommend some good ones?

thanks
 
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Old 08-18-13, 12:17 PM
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The internal passages diverge not far from where it enters the bowl. Some goes to the under rim holes and the rest to the chute in the bottom of the bowl. It's quite possible that the main passage leading to the under rim has been clogged by something. I've found everything from chunks of in tank sanitizing toilet mints, the plastic caps from the plastic bottle in tank toilet cleaners and once a Barbie doll's head.
 
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Old 08-18-13, 01:21 PM
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any instruction on how to take it apart and check that internal passage?
 
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Old 08-18-13, 01:38 PM
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what else could be wrong?
Hmmm... I remember know that there is an additional tube or control with the flush/fillvalve and or another passage in the tank...

Often when the internals are replaced OEM parts are not used..

Look here... Do you still have that large tube in there with that other float??? If not thats your issue...

http://c650608.r8.cf2.rackcdn.com/K-3402.pdf


But then again I would replace IMO... Up to you...

Best toilet IMO is the american standard champion 4...I use and install....I like the higher toilets... They are 17".. Here is an example...

American Standard Champion 4 2-Piece 1.6 GPF Right Height Elongated Toilet in White-2002.014.020 at The Home Depot

If you like the one piece look they know make them too...

American Standard Champion 4 1-Piece 1.6 GPF Elongated Toilet in White-2004.014.020 at The Home Depot

Make sure has the fully glazed trap way and the everclean surface....
 
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Old 08-18-13, 01:57 PM
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no float and no tube i think, here is the picture of inside tank...

those american standard champion 4 are expensive, almost 3x regular one, are they worth that expensive?

Thanks.
 
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Old 08-18-13, 02:30 PM
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worth every penny IMO...

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/controls/fmavideoslide.aspx?bctid=507071383001&bclid=2340680016001
Does that center mound in the tank have a hole in the side???

Cant you post the #'s found in the lid and inside tank?
 
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Old 08-18-13, 04:21 PM
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the model is 3402 pb, like this Kohler Rialto Toilet Repair Parts

there are 4 big roles in the back side of the tank(right side of the above picture). the water level is a little bit higher than the water level mark in the overflow tube.
 
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Old 08-18-13, 05:27 PM
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Part 2A is the rim hose your missing... This happens when plumbers dont know what they are doing... They remove OEM and replace with after market stuff...

Dont work on the rialtos...

Now when you price to parts to restore this toilet to OEM you will see they cost more then a new toilet...Just look at the prices on the right of your link....

And if you did replace the parts you would still have a poor flushing 30 year old toilet....

( I installed those toilets when I was a kid 17 years old... Im 47 now... )
 
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Old 08-19-13, 09:58 PM
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got it... thanks.

that's really bad. I might end up replacement it.
 
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Old 08-30-13, 05:45 PM
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installed American standard 4 champion 1.28 GPF, it uses so little water that I worried every time if it will flush clean. So far it works ok, although not as great as in the demo video. I did observed that occasionally the water has some small dirty stuff there after the flush.

I noticed that the flapper is different from other generic toilet, are the parts easy to buy if needed?
 
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Old 08-30-13, 06:20 PM
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installed American standard 4 champion 1.28 GPF
Well not sure why you bought the 1.28 gpf... I only use and install the 1.6's.. Guess I did not specify, so I apologize for that...

are the parts easy to buy if needed?
10 yr warranty... Just call AS and they will send you what you need....
 
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Old 09-02-13, 08:57 PM
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lawrosa, I knew both of your earlier links are for 1.6 GPF. When I went to HD, they only had 1.28 GPF on stock. I did hesitate for a while. I remembered I read online that California is going to make it required to use 1.28GPF for new installation so I think it should be fairly reliable. So far so good.

Thanks!
 
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Old 09-22-13, 01:28 PM
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P i t a

fei2010 I'm just venting my 2 bits worth of frustration here.

You did the right thing replacing your Kolher. Cost wise your old Kohler probably cost at least half again as much as your replacement. I'd like to replace mine but don't have the vertical space required.

That Kohler Rialto is a piece of (insert your appropriate 4 letter pun here)! I had one installed in 1985 and I would guess it worked correctly for about 6 months at most. Then it started to run continuously like commercial urinals used to do, always a clean bowl and never had to flush except for solids. Made adjustments and they'd last a couple weeks. Replaced with original parts, which cost an arm-and-a-leg and they didn't last long either.

Being unaware in the begining I was always sold a complete assembly. Found out later there was a much cheaper rebuild kit so I bought a couple of those and rebuilt 2 units keeping one as a spare. Next time it required repaired I just swapped out the unit and, at some point, rebuilt the old one and kept it on hand for the next time.

Wound up having to kneel down after the finish of every flush, this meant standing there waiting or remembering to come back, and turn the water supply valve off which meant of course I had to kneel down again at some point and turn the water on when used again. I had a knee injury at one time and I believed this exercise actually helped to heal my knee. That's my only positive remark about that toilet.

Finally replaced the wall valve with a quarter turn valve and constructed an extension wrench so no more kneeling but it still had to be turned on and off for each use. Maybe there was another positive point, I never had to be concerned about the supply line bursting since it was always off when not in use.

I always swear if I ever find another toilet that will fit in the vertical space and at least be a similar color it will be gone without another thought. I guess I should add that this is in a spare bathroom, it's not like my daily user. That would be too much.
 

Last edited by orbsphere; 09-22-13 at 01:53 PM.
 

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